RS-POS - Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com

gambler844 · 05-07-2003, 05:11 PM

Has anyone tried Cramers RS-POS. If so, how did it work and does he have a chat room?

GR1@HTR · 05-07-2003, 05:17 PM

www.rspos.com

kitts · 05-07-2003, 06:51 PM

You have the link for the chat room. Let me tell you about the Reports. I have been using them for years. Alhtough I do use other software for handicapping, that changes from time to time, but I will always have RS/POS. It has a daunting learning curve for sure, but once that is accomplished you will have the best picture of race shape I've ever used. Add to that the Cramer speed figure(a final time number) and the Cramer Projected Speed Rating plus some nice Trainer/Jockey/Pedigree stats. The Report even analyzes the "running style" of the jockey. This Report can prove to be a great adjunct to your handicapping.

so.cal.fan · 05-08-2003, 12:14 PM

I have used it from time to time in So. Cal.
Works best on DIRT ONLY. Don't go back too far with the pace lines........3 or 4 months back is probably best guide.
Be careful with class.......a EP 4 with a paceline out of a much higher class race.....will beat a E1 out of a much cheaper race.....9 times out of 10.
Does not work at all (at least in So. Calif) on TURF. Don't waste your time.

kitts · 05-08-2003, 12:54 PM

Well, that's what make horseracing. I use RS/POS successfully on turf races. I almost always accept last race last fraction advantage of 5 ticks as a must bet. And the class issue can apply,dirt and turf, but RS/POS reports comes with brief codes of various factors that apply to each horse including Class factors. Works for me.

JimL · 05-08-2003, 01:00 PM

SCF and Kitts, I also use RS-POS however I have never really been able to make a confident call on a PS4 or S4 with 7 or 8 Quirin speed points. we know these horses are going to the front and we also know that they should be laying 4th or close to it.
What to do?

so.cal.fan · 05-08-2003, 02:09 PM

Jim,
I would say, base your decision on the class of the race you are taking the best pace figures from.........it probably won't matter if the horse runs as a PS, P, EP or E. It has shown it can compete on the pace against better.

Kitts:
I just do the math in my head, I'm sure I make a lot of errors.
Obviously the computer print outs on the RS_POS site are more accurate than so.cal.fan.
I nearly always prefer a fast close on grass....unless the only class is also the only speed.......as in Charlie Bates on April 23 at Hollywood Park......SERIOUSLY outclassed the weak fifth race field and went wire to wire.

andicap · 05-08-2003, 02:13 PM

I've looked at them a little -- you're right Kitts the learning curve is steep.

One of my concerns was the RS-POS is based on the BEST first fraction
in the horses record, right? I mean, why would you use the best fraction in today's race. Why is that meaningful?
Or do I have this all mixed up?

GameTheory · 05-08-2003, 02:21 PM

He says he uses the best first fraction (from the last 10) because it works best:

http://www.rspos.com/rsinfo.html

GR1@HTR · 05-08-2003, 02:36 PM

I used to have a computer generated spot play based on 2 yrs data..hit something like 52% w/ positive ROI. Cramer RSPOS1 was one of the factoids.

Also Jim Cramer of HDW has excellent stuff for us data geeks in the barry meadow newsletters. RSPOS 1 favorites win something like 38% of the time where as RSPOS-8 favorites win in the low 20's (working off memory).

kitts · 05-08-2003, 02:45 PM

The link provided by Game Theory can answer a lot of questions. The main thing I like about these reports is their rigidity. The "POS" is indeed based on a horse's best first quarter- dirt, turf, mud, old, new, whatever. Hard to accept that concept? It was for me. Until I learned its value. And working with Jim Cramer while he was automating his theories (he had developed this idea many years earlier and made money doing it-I watched him do so)gave me some insights. Like "The S1 will not be first at first call" or "the POS4 has an advantage in 7f." As previously mentioned the learning curve is steep. If you just cannot accept the basic concepts (and many players have had trouble doing so)then this would not be for you.

Jim-
The alleged off-pace horse with the Quirin points? Look at the far right column on the Summary Report where it shows the horse's RS/POS from recent races and you can often determine the hore's tendencies today. Most horses win early on in E or EP fashion. As their skills improve they may win as P or S which changes their "RS" but that does not mean the horse won't run early. If you would like to get further with this you can email me at kitszoo@lvcm.com

andicap · 05-08-2003, 03:09 PM

Kitts,
I was under the impression Jim Cramer didn't bet the horses.

so.cal.fan · 05-08-2003, 09:50 PM

I heard an audio tape of a seminar Jim Cramer, Dick Mitchell, and our own Kitts did at Santa Anita about 5 years ago.
It was a weekend seminar on RS_POS.
Jim Cramer does bet horses.
He is also an interesting guy with some very unique ideas, some I agree with, some I don't, but they are original.
I just recently saw some of his stuff in Barry Meadow's Monthly newsletter. Looking forward to reading more from this guy.
I think RS_POS has a lot of interesting potential......although I still think some adjustments need to be made, and of course NO NUMBER system is better than good old common sense, but if it is based on common sense, it can save you making some stupid errors.......that always interests me.

Doug · 05-08-2003, 11:21 PM

Kitts,

Maybe you can answear this question for me.

Looking at the info pace under running styles descripition I fin a sustained runner described as a horse that was no further back than 7 lengths or positioned farther back then 7th.

My question is this "If the horse was 6th by 6 1/2 lengths in a field of 6th. would this not be considered a deep closer"?

Not a big deal, but was just curious.

thanks for any info,

Doug

Tom · 05-09-2003, 01:04 PM

What I like about it is two things:
1. Rules for whoe gets and E, P, S etc. No judgment, therefore it is always the same.
2. Using the worst early pace catagory forces you to leave a horse in the analysis longer - a horse who has won as a sustained hores before stays around longer than an E horse, even if that horse will probably not have to run as an S today-he may well be a front runner, but he has show the abbility to not need the lead before.

One of my favorite plays is the P1 horse, followed closely by the S1 horse (especially going sprint to route).