Too friendly NYRA Riding Colony

[EMD4ME]

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

Paceless race - Irad gets the favorite and takes him back for a very patient trip and a 1 run.
Jose gets a long shot and is allowed to jog uncontested on the lead (and uncontested into the stretch if things go as planned).

No.....STOP IT. That NEVER happens

[Robert Fischer]

Originally Posted by johnhannibalsmith

And when that happens you call in everyone involved and start asking a lot of questions and turn up the heat a bit. That can happen if the names are Jose and Irad or if they are Joe and Paul and been pals for a week and a half. The problem isn't who is related to who, it is the questionable tactics and ride. Let's get the problem.

Sounds good in theory.

But the talking heads say "Oh Macagone(etc) was just too good today!!"
and everyone calls any questions a 'conspiracy theory'.

You are right, the problem is the questionable tactics and rides. And the stewards oversight and judgement.

But how does one enforce such a thing?

If it's done well, there's nothing that can be said other than pondering it.

After a while, a sharp player can before the race, realize that there is a possible vulnerability for a collusion scenario, and then if the race happens to in fact play out that way - even that predicted scenario isn't really 'proof'.

I don't know that you go around banning fraternization, but it's worthy conversation

[johnhannibalsmith]

Originally Posted by EMD4ME

It just looks worse and worse when guys are related.

...

I know that it does. But on the same hand that should make it a whole lot easier to identify if it is going on. And if it is identified because it is, perhaps, going on, that means that it shouldn't be terribly much to call in the riders, trainers, owners, and anyone involved in giving instructions into the same dank room with too few chairs and turn the screws at least until it starts to seem like a bad idea to risk that livelihood that pays a whole lot more than anything you are qualified to do. And if you seem to keep bringing in the same group of people, it shouldn't be long before you hang a ruling that effectively puts the whole colony on notice - if they weren't merely from the inquisitions - that we better take our tack elsewhere or maybe even just ride for the best possible placing each time in accordance with the rules.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

Sounds good in theory.

... but it's worthy conversation

Agreed and I'm not here to submit that my suggestion is foolproof, but I think its a lot closer to the route stews are supposed to take and most players would appreciate. They are already empowered to do those things, it requires no special rules that may or may not even get off the ground floor and wouldn't be heavy-handed to the point that victims of such a policy would strongly consider retribution for having their livelihoods effectively tarnished, if not ruined, based on nothing tangible. One foot in front of the other, make the case, demonstrate the need for such a rule when efforts at dealing with it within the powers you already have but have failed to ever utilize are ineffective at dealing with it, then consider such a rule. I think that's the proper and fair way, as well as the all-around best way for everyone, including all the other riders and participants, rather than cherry-picking which asinine rides get the gas face based on surname.

[EMD4ME]

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

Sounds good in theory.

But the talking heads say "Oh Macagone(etc) was just too good today!!"
and everyone calls any questions a 'conspiracy theory'.

You are right, the problem is the questionable tactics and rides. And the stewards oversight and judgement.

But how does one enforce such a thing?

If it's done well, there's nothing that can be said other than pondering it.

After a while, a sharp player can before the race, realize that there is a possible vulnerability for a collusion scenario, and then if the race happens to in fact play out that way - even that predicted scenario isn't really 'proof'.

I don't know that you go around banning fraternization, but it's worthy conversation

Yes, profitable, big time, as mostly prices win when and IF that happens.

But it got very annoying in Dec-Mar trying to figure out which race "crap" would happen. Guess what happened to my handle?

Dropped like...you fill in the blank. Major turn off.

Guess where my handle is in May and June? SKY HIGH. Not just because Julien Couton is not at Emerald but because the NYRA product has had less "crap" happen in races. More handicapping of horses, not smelling out a script.

But I will add, I've made a truck load of money on smelling out "scripts", just to be clear.

[EMD4ME]

Originally Posted by johnhannibalsmith

I know that it does. But on the same hand that should make it a whole lot easier to identify if it is going on. And if it is identified because it is, perhaps, going on, that means that it shouldn't be terribly much to call in the riders, trainers, owners, and anyone involved in giving instructions into the same dank room with too few chairs and turn the screws at least until it starts to seem like a bad idea to risk that livelihood that pays a whole lot more than anything you are qualified to do. And if you seem to keep bringing in the same group of people, it shouldn't be long before you hang a ruling that effectively puts the whole colony on notice - if they weren't merely from the inquisitions - that we better take our tack elsewhere or maybe even just ride for the best possible placing each time in accordance with the rules.

OK, I'll get in trouble for this but I'll say it is nicely as possible.

Stewards policing? IMHO, they are cashing along with it. No proof, not saying as fact. Just my insane opinion.

[EMD4ME]

Regardless if I am nuts or if none of this true. My question remains:

At what point, IF ANY, should NYRA make some rules and say: No relatives/domestic partners can ride in the same race?

If I knew how, I'd create a poll. Can anyone help?

[johnhannibalsmith]

Originally Posted by EMD4ME

OK, I'll get in trouble for this but I'll say it is nicely as possible.

Stewards policing? IMHO, they are cashing along with it. No proof, not saying as fact. Just my insane opinion.

Then you should be campaigning the state to replace the stewards instead of wasting your time worrying about the Ortiz kids since the problem would never go away by banishing two people.

[EMD4ME]

Originally Posted by johnhannibalsmith

Then you should be campaigning the state to replace the stewards instead of wasting your time worrying about the Ortiz kids since the problem would never go away by banishing two people.

Oh yes, I'll write to Cuomo. Yeah that will help LOL....

I took the only actions I could take.

1) I reduced handle big time.

2) I smelled out the collusion races and cashed along.

No other options.

[EMD4ME]

When the leading trainer calls the leading jock a complete crook, I think it's safe to say I know what I'm talking about.

When a certain female rider says I need to join the crew's actions or never eat, I think it's safe to say integrity is a concern.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Originally Posted by EMD4ME

Oh yes, I'll write to Cuomo. Yeah that will help LOL....

...

Well... it is Cuomo... it might be your BEST shot...

[EMD4ME]

Originally Posted by johnhannibalsmith

Well... it is Cuomo... it might be your BEST shot...

And before anyone comes on here and says "losers blame others when they lose".

Think again, I'm complaining while I'm well ahead. I love this game and want to see it thrive. That's my motivation.

[the little guy]

Let's play a game.....how many threads can EMD4ME start about the same topic?

By the way, if you think Manny Franco is colluding with the Ortiz brothers, you're just wrong.

[Ocala Mike]

I have noticed one thing lately, that is, if you count the number of "jocks in today," in other words, how many jocks will be covering every mount in 9 or 10 races, it's often fewer than 20 "bodies," suggesting a very closed fraternity/sorority of riders, thus allowing for the possibility of more skullduggery.

Familiarity breeds complicity.

[thespaah]

Originally Posted by EMD4ME

[/B]

That is the funniest thing I've heard all month !!!!

Bada dum dum....Try the veal. I'll be here 'til the 15th...