Canterbury to cut takeout across the board

[OTM Al]

Originally Posted by chadk66

I know all about it I spent eight years there training horses

Then how is now any better than then? Sounds like very little if anything has changed. People become fans/players when the see it live, sure, that's why it is bad when tracks close. But if they aren't going to bet more than they have and are, nothing has been accomplished.

[chadk66]

Originally Posted by OTM Al

Then how is now any better than then? Sounds like very little if anything has changed. People become fans/players when the see it live, sure, that's why it is bad when tracks close. But if they aren't going to bet more than they have and are, nothing has been accomplished.

it' better in so many ways. purses are huge there now. attendance is higher than it's been since 85. The base continues to grow. The atmosphere there now is amazing. They operate year round now so people don't forget about the place. It's probably the only track in the country with attendance on the rise. Will this lead to a huge success? Who knows. But if it don't than I think the sport is about toast. But like you mentioned they don't bet much per capita. which means the reduced takeout means very little and it probably won't stick around much unless people show they appreciate it

[Track Phantom]

Here's the reality: No one is going to become a horse player unless they are exposed to the sport of horse racing. Currently, with the exception of Canterbury, I know of no other tracks going over and above to get people in the door. In 15-20 years, odds say some reasonable percentage of these people will start betting and become lifers.

How are other venues going to increase their horseplayer population? When many of the lifetime players die off, who is there to replace them?

Make fun of $2 bettors all you want....you have to start somewhere. Name me one person that started as a $100-$200 bettor.

[chadk66]

Originally Posted by Track Phantom

Here's the reality: No one is going to become a horse player unless they are exposed to the sport of horse racing. Currently, with the exception of Canterbury, I know of no other tracks going over and above to get people in the door. In 15-20 years, odds say some reasonable percentage of these people will start betting and become lifers.

How are other venues going to increase their horseplayer population? When many of the lifetime players die off, who is there to replace them?

Make fun of $2 bettors all you want....you have to start somewhere. Name me one person that started as a $100-$200 bettor.

exactly

[pandy]

Originally Posted by Track Phantom

Here's the reality: No one is going to become a horse player unless they are exposed to the sport of horse racing. Currently, with the exception of Canterbury, I know of no other tracks going over and above to get people in the door. In 15-20 years, odds say some reasonable percentage of these people will start betting and become lifers.

How are other venues going to increase their horseplayer population? When many of the lifetime players die off, who is there to replace them?

Make fun of $2 bettors all you want....you have to start somewhere. Name me one person that started as a $100-$200 bettor.

I interviewed Barry Lefkowitz recently. He was long time harness racing P.R. guy and G.M. He said that tracks should have young people, twenty somethings, working in marketing. He said you have to get young people in the door and you need to hire younger people because they have a better understanding of what the younger generation wants. He also said that tracks should be doing more focus groups and surveys of customers and people in the community. And, he said that racing may need to make changes to the sport or betting to adapt it so that younger people get more interested.

It reminded me of when I first saw more interactive slot machines at Atlantic City years ago. They brought in all of these cool slot machines where you had to play a game by touching the screen. They were much better machines and more appealing to anyone who is either young, or has played video games. They lasted about a year. The casinos said that it was taking people too long to lose their money. Here they had a good thing, something more modern and interactive, and they got rid of it!

[Track Phantom]

Originally Posted by pandy

...And, he said that racing may need to make changes to the sport or betting to adapt it so that younger people get more interested....

This is the exact solution (although the specific changes are hard to identify). There is an antiquated factor to the game that just doesn't appeal to most under the age of 30. My gut feeling is the biggest turnoff is the 26-30 minutes between races. That is just far too long to hold the attention of younger people in this day and age.

[pandy]

Originally Posted by Track Phantom

This is the exact solution (although the specific changes are hard to identify). There is an antiquated factor to the game that just doesn't appeal to most under the age of 30. My gut feeling is the biggest turnoff is the 26-30 minutes between races. That is just far too long to hold the attention of younger people in this day and age.

I agree. If I managed a track I'd probably be trying to figure out what else they could be doing between races to fill the gap.

[OTM Al]

Originally Posted by Track Phantom

This is the exact solution (although the specific changes are hard to identify). There is an antiquated factor to the game that just doesn't appeal to most under the age of 30. My gut feeling is the biggest turnoff is the 26-30 minutes between races. That is just far too long to hold the attention of younger people in this day and age.

Time and disposable income seem to be the real issues. Older people have it and younger people don't. The focus should not be on young people. By all means tracks should promote family days to provide introduction to the animals and the game as a cheap day out, but the real focus should be on capturing older people before they wander off to the slot parlor and are lost for good. Young people today who are introduced to a positive experience become the older horseplayer of the future. It has always been so and nothing will change it as the root cause is purely economic, not one of attitude. Forget the twenty somethings other than for the party days like the Derby and Preakness.

[rastajenk]

Right on, Al. The biggest population bubble ever has reached the empty-nest years, and is the best bridge to the future, whatever that may be.

Who are these young adults that we should be targeting? New parents, recent home buyers? Veterans of a club scene or plain ol' partiers? Geeks and nerds? I'm not coming up with any kind of young-adult subculture that racing can point to and say, "There's our new market" without it being a total waste of time and resources.

[pandy]

Originally Posted by OTM Al

Time and disposable income seem to be the real issues. Older people have it and younger people don't. The focus should not be on young people. By all means tracks should promote family days to provide introduction to the animals and the game as a cheap day out, but the real focus should be on capturing older people before they wander off to the slot parlor and are lost for good. Young people today who are introduced to a positive experience become the older horseplayer of the future. It has always been so and nothing will change it as the root cause is purely economic, not one of attitude. Forget the twenty somethings other than for the party days like the Derby and Preakness.

Gee, I don't know Al. When I first went to the track I was 18, I did not have disposable income and I was going to college and working nights, so I had a lot less free time than I do now, but I still went to the track on a regular basis. I agree that the tracks have to try to put out the best product they can, from a gambling and entertainment viewpoint, to appeal to people who already like to bet horses. But there also has to be an attempt to entice the younger generations if the sport is going to survive in the long term.

Many businesses and industries have fallen apart because they failed to adapt to modern times. Kodak had the market on photo processing all to itself and their management, a bunch of old guys, laughed at the idea that people wouldn't want to use film.

[rastajenk]

I did, too, probably at about the same time you did, pandy, but it was not because of any special effort by tracks to get me to do it. The grandstands were always full, with many colorful characters, you spent 3/4's of your time in lines before simultaneous cash-and-bet came into being, it was a different time back then that we will never get back to with full-card simulcasting, betting from home or from anywhere.

The Kodak comparison is interesting. Digital photography, and the ensuing smartphone capabilities, allowed more people to take more photos, good and bad, without going through all that development crap, learning about f-stops and apertures, the whole thing.

A similar shortcut to become a racing fan simply doesn't exist. Being able to fire off bets anywhere and anytime won't make one a better bettor, it will just tap out someone quicker before he really learns anything about it.

[OTM Al]

Originally Posted by pandy

Gee, I don't know Al. When I first went to the track I was 18, I did not have disposable income and I was going to college and working nights, so I had a lot less free time than I do now, but I still went to the track on a regular basis. I agree that the tracks have to try to put out the best product they can, from a gambling and entertainment viewpoint, to appeal to people who already like to bet horses. But there also has to be an attempt to entice the younger generations if the sport is going to survive in the long term.

Many businesses and industries have fallen apart because they failed to adapt to modern times. Kodak had the market on photo processing all to itself and their management, a bunch of old guys, laughed at the idea that people wouldn't want to use film.

This happens. Some people always go beyond the standards of their demographic, but tell me, were you the exception or the rule where you were? I'm not saying some people will start young. There are always some. But most young people in your situation will spend their time in a different way. I'm just saying that this is not the group to focus major effort on because it will bear very little fruit.

[OTM Al]

Originally Posted by rastajenk

Right on, Al. The biggest population bubble ever has reached the empty-nest years, and is the best bridge to the future, whatever that may be.

Who are these young adults that we should be targeting? New parents, recent home buyers? Veterans of a club scene or plain ol' partiers? Geeks and nerds? I'm not coming up with any kind of young-adult subculture that racing can point to and say, "There's our new market" without it being a total waste of time and resources.

Like I said, I think in that age group the best thing is to devote Sundays to family days. Have available picnicing areas so people can bring their own food. Have pony rides for the kids and demonstrations with real horses, things that can connect the kids with animals. It gives a working family a cheap day out and different levels of entertainment for the full family. Mom and dad may come back with friends. Kids will remember and have it in mind as they grow up. This is so cheap to do. Stuff aimed at twenty somethings just aren't worth it.

[pandy]

Originally Posted by rastajenk

I did, too, probably at about the same time you did, pandy, but it was not because of any special effort by tracks to get me to do it. The grandstands were always full, with many colorful characters, you spent 3/4's of your time in lines before simultaneous cash-and-bet came into being, it was a different time back then that we will never get back to with full-card simulcasting, betting from home or from anywhere.

The Kodak comparison is interesting. Digital photography, and the ensuing smartphone capabilities, allowed more people to take more photos, good and bad, without going through all that development crap, learning about f-stops and apertures, the whole thing.

A similar shortcut to become a racing fan simply doesn't exist. Being able to fire off bets anywhere and anytime won't make one a better bettor, it will just tap out someone quicker before he really learns anything about it.

I think we're giving racetrack management too much credit. The people who manage most of these tracks are not looking towards the future, and overall the management isn't that good.

One of the things I would do is have computer handicapping seminars at the tracks. The younger generation is not going to buy a Racing Form or program. They're going to want to look at the info on their phones or other electronic devices. Something like Trakus is a step in the right direction. If I ran a track, I'd take it a step further and hire a team to create a website and ap that quickly generates statistics, graphs, etc., on pertinent information such as track bias, post position stats, trainer and jockey stats.

I also think that there should probably be a more sophisticated betting platform, similar to Betfair, but perhaps even more advanced, with hedging and parlay options. The younger generation will get more involved in horseracing if they view it as a trading platform, similar to Forex.

That's just some of my ideas. I think there are a lot of things that should be tried, and I think it's time to sit down with some of the younger generation and get some feedback from them.

[OTM Al]

Originally Posted by pandy

I think we're giving racetrack management too much credit. The people who manage most of these tracks are not looking towards the future, and overall the management isn't that good.

One of the things I would do is have computer handicapping seminars at the tracks. The younger generation is not going to buy a Racing Form or program. They're going to want to look at the info on their phones or other electronic devices. Something like Trakus is a step in the right direction. If I ran a track, I'd take it a step further and hire a team to create a website and ap that quickly generates statistics, graphs, etc., on pertinent information such as track bias, post position stats, trainer and jockey stats.

I also think that there should probably be a more sophisticated betting platform, similar to Betfair, but perhaps even more advanced, with hedging and parlay options. The younger generation will get more involved in horseracing if they view it as a trading platform, similar to Forex.

That's just some of my ideas. I think there are a lot of things that should be tried, and I think it's time to sit down with some of the younger generation and get some feedback from them.

I think we need to stop bashing the straw man known as "management" constantly and look at ourselves a little bit too. I've seen plenty of people in management who are devoted to the customers and work their asses off to try to provide them with a great time at the track. In return they have been called the vilest of names to their faces. They try to do something positive for the people and then face complaints of why didn't you do something else. You can't leave stuff out because people will steal everything not nailed down. Not to mention about how patrons trash the facilities. I've also seen a few people in management who are everything you say they are, but they are really the exception. So having seen both sides of this thing, I think we all have room for improvement. To get back on topic, this thread is a case in point. "Management" has given us exactly what we've been asking for. Where are we in holding up our end of the deal?