Planned Parenthood bill, passes

[riskman]

Originally Posted by chadk66

when my tax dollars are being used for their survival I am.

You are opposed that your tax dollars are used to help needy adults and children who are citizens here in this country? Do I have this right?
Food and shelter and medical assistance is off the table? To me that is survival at the very basic level that we should help as humans. Hope I misunderstood you which I do on a regular basis.

[chadk66]

Originally Posted by riskman

You are opposed that your tax dollars are used to help needy adults and children who are citizens here in this country? Do I have this right?
Food and shelter and medical assistance is off the table? To me that is survival at the very basic level that we should help as humans. Hope I misunderstood you which I do on a regular basis.

not at all. I'm not willing to pay for more of their children because they can't keep their clothes on while we're giving them a free ride. That way we can continue to help them and won't have to worry about continued growth of welfare recipients. as it is now we're caught in a death spiral because they reproduce like flies. No reason for that to happen in today's society when they are living off the public dole. why would liberals want more people being born into poverty? Votes would be the only answer to that.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Originally Posted by chadk66

... why would liberals want more people being born into poverty? Votes would be the only answer to that.

Is this still the abortion thread?

[chadk66]

Originally Posted by johnhannibalsmith

Is this still the abortion thread?

I think so

[Tom]

Originally Posted by barahona44

I'm not into the government dictating to people who should and shouldn't have children.

But you're ok with them telling us who has to pay for them?

[Fager Fan]

I'm going to agree with Barahona on this one. There is something quite uncomfortable about government forcing of birth control or similar unless the person has committed a sex crime. I don't think people should have kids they can't afford, but we should solve the problem in another way, not this way.

I don't even like the drug tests for welfare recipients. I don't really see how or why we're tying the two together. Instead, I think we should require welfare recipients to work for their welfare, provided they are of sound mind and body and can work. I'd put a fair dollar amount on the welfare they're receiving (some may not be in the form of cash), and then they have to volunteer for non-profits, government positions, or interning, the number of hours to equal them working for minimum wage. If there is illness or a valid reason why the person can't work, then they can be excused for that time period by their case worker. If people are having to work for their welfare, they'll want to move up from the minimum wage and perhaps also to a job they like better by finding a real paying job.

[chadk66]

Originally Posted by Fager Fan

I'm going to agree with Barahona on this one. There is something quite uncomfortable about government forcing of birth control or similar unless the person has committed a sex crime. I don't think people should have kids they can't afford, but we should solve the problem in another way, not this way.

I don't even like the drug tests for welfare recipients. I don't really see how or why we're tying the two together. Instead, I think we should require welfare recipients to work for their welfare, provided they are of sound mind and body and can work. I'd put a fair dollar amount on the welfare they're receiving (some may not be in the form of cash), and then they have to volunteer for non-profits, government positions, or interning, the number of hours to equal them working for minimum wage. If there is illness or a valid reason why the person can't work, then they can be excused for that time period by their case worker. If people are having to work for their welfare, they'll want to move up from the minimum wage and perhaps also to a job they like better by finding a real paying job.

but they don't have to take the birth control. they just trade their welfare for not having to do that.

[Fager Fan]

Originally Posted by chadk66

but they don't have to take the birth control. they just trade their welfare for not having to do that.

What? Are you suggesting that there's something wrong with someone who is able to work do so in exchange for money and goods?

[davew]

Originally Posted by Fager Fan

What? Are you suggesting that there's something wrong with someone who is able to work do so in exchange for money and goods?

I think he is saying that there were/are too many people collecting welfare and popping babies for even bigger checks from the government. Their only work being raising their kids and gestating more kids...

His suggestion being that while they are getting this money from the government for not working at a job, they are not having even more kids ... hence some sort of long term birth control because many still have enough money and time for drugs and sex.

[chadk66]

Originally Posted by davew

I think he is saying that there were/are too many people collecting welfare and popping babies for even bigger checks from the government. Their only work being raising their kids and gestating more kids...

His suggestion being that while they are getting this money from the government for not working at a job, they are not having even more kids ... hence some sort of long term birth control because many still have enough money and time for drugs and sex.

exactly. There are many that hold down a job and still honestly need welfare while they are trying to get themselves out of the hole. These people don't concern me. It's the baby factories to increase welfare checks that concern me. Those kids become drug dealers/killers/etc. We don't need that. If they have no job and want welfare they take the implant or the stopping of their sperms life to receive those benefits. When they become employed steadily for a year they can reproduce. It's actually an extremely benign program. And it would be amazing how it would clean up this country over the next twenty plus years.

[Fager Fan]

Originally Posted by chadk66

exactly. There are many that hold down a job and still honestly need welfare while they are trying to get themselves out of the hole. These people don't concern me. It's the baby factories to increase welfare checks that concern me. Those kids become drug dealers/killers/etc. We don't need that. If they have no job and want welfare they take the implant or the stopping of their sperms life to receive those benefits. When they become employed steadily for a year they can reproduce. It's actually an extremely benign program. And it would be amazing how it would clean up this country over the next twenty plus years.

You don't see the problem in demanding birth control of women to get welfare but men having no such requirement to get their welfare?

[chadk66]

Originally Posted by Fager Fan

You don't see the problem in demanding birth control of women to get welfare but men having no such requirement to get their welfare?

read my post. I said stopping the sperm too. Both need to be required to do it.

[Fager Fan]

Originally Posted by chadk66

read my post. I said stopping the sperm too. Both need to be required to do it.

The last I heard, that's not a real possibility unless you're suggesting vasectomies.

[chadk66]

Originally Posted by Fager Fan

The last I heard, that's not a real possibility unless you're suggesting vasectomies.

nope. somebody pointed out above there are things available to work on men too. but in reality it wouldn't matter. If you remove the "birther" you remove the end product without anything being done to the fertilizer. End result is the same. And that's all that matters anyway.

[Fager Fan]

Originally Posted by chadk66

nope. somebody pointed out above there are things available to work on men too. but in reality it wouldn't matter. If you remove the "birther" you remove the end product without anything being done to the fertilizer. End result is the same. And that's all that matters anyway.

I'm pretty sure there's no birth control for men similar to women. Don't forget that outside of a permanent physical procedure, the proof of meeting any birth control standard would be non-tamper proof.

And it most certainly does matter. You can't require something of only one sex in order to get gov welfare. It'd lose in any court, and would lose 9-0 in the Supreme Court, and rightly so.

Not the mention how government control of a person's body, particularly the poor, would be seen as unacceptable to all but a few. It would make us comparable to China. It'll fail in public perception and in the courts.

So come up with another idea because this one has exactly zero chance of becoming reality.