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Old 09-16-2014, 02:26 PM   #1
ReplayRandall
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Time for Contraction

How bad is racing, when on Sept 1st, an average run-of-the-mill horse wins by 50 lengths at Mountaineer? It's so bad that contraction of all t-bred tracks is now a MUST. Mountaineer has one of the worst racing products and should be closed, letting the casino finally have its way. PID is not far behind, along with currently shelved Colonial Downs and sadly, Turfway park. Say goodbye to Calder, what's left of Laurel and a few more just barely hanging on. The economic conditions are by far the worst I've seen in the last 35 years with NO hope of a change in any direction but down. Greyhound racing has already seen its almost extinction and casinos across the US are beginning to close down due to over-saturation and an overall poor economic outlook for years to come. I look at major tracks like Arlington and just shake my head at the product they now serve the racing public.........My friends and I just miss the FUN and the way horse racing used to be............. You can never go back.
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Old 09-16-2014, 02:32 PM   #2
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well you can say goodbye to Suffolk Downs..... just lost the casino vote 3-1 and management had already said no casino, no racing.
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Old 09-16-2014, 02:36 PM   #3
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A day at Longacres used to be the most fun I could ever have, win. lose or draw. The ambiance at the track is now gone. The people are different, the players on site are different, the whole experience is different, and not for the better.

As for the race at MTR. It was a 2 1/4 mile race that was decided at the 1/2 mile pole, and the winner was driving in the lane. I counted the whip 3 times with a 30 length lead, and the 2nd place horse was jogging 30 lengths ahead of the rest of the field. The 3 trailers actually competed to the 1/16th pole when those jocks finally conceded the order of finish was determined.
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Old 09-16-2014, 02:49 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReplayRandall
How bad is racing, when on Sept 1st, an average run-of-the-mill horse wins by 50 lengths at Mountaineer? It's so bad that contraction of all t-bred tracks is now a MUST. Mountaineer has one of the worst racing products and should be closed, letting the casino finally have its way. PID is not far behind, along with currently shelved Colonial Downs and sadly, Turfway park. Say goodbye to Calder, what's left of Laurel and a few more just barely hanging on. The economic conditions are by far the worst I've seen in the last 35 years with NO hope of a change in any direction but down. Greyhound racing has already seen its almost extinction and casinos across the US are beginning to close down due to over-saturation and an overall poor economic outlook for years to come. I look at major tracks like Arlington and just shake my head at the product they now serve the racing public.........My friends and I just miss the FUN and the way horse racing used to be............. You can never go back.
But isn't that what the casino tracks want? The racing to be closed? Should we permit casino interests to sabotage their racing product so they can convince their state to get rid of the racing because its losing money?
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Old 09-16-2014, 02:57 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Gobbi
well you can say goodbye to Suffolk Downs..... just lost the casino vote 3-1 and management had already said no casino, no racing.
Going to take out a lot of jobs in that area.
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Old 09-16-2014, 03:05 PM   #6
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Blowout wins happen in marathon races all the time. I'm not surprised by 50 lengths.
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Old 09-16-2014, 03:41 PM   #7
ReplayRandall
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Originally Posted by Stillriledup
But isn't that what the casino tracks want? The racing to be closed? Should we permit casino interests to sabotage their racing product so they can convince their state to get rid of the racing because its losing money?
When you go to bed with a whore, what do you think SHOULD happen to your marriage or long-term relationships?

They've brought it on themselves...first, they lost the customer; then they lost the handle; then they lost the purses; then they lost the horse population.

Management needs to see a good proctologist and have their heads pulled out.

Last edited by ReplayRandall; 09-16-2014 at 03:42 PM.
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Old 09-16-2014, 03:51 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by ReplayRandall
When you go to bed with a whore, what do you think SHOULD happen to your marriage or long-term relationships?

They've brought it on themselves...first, they lost the customer; then they lost the handle; then they lost the purses; then they lost the horse population.

Management needs to see a good proctologist and have their heads pulled out.
Horse racing interests have completely botched the BILLIONS in slot revenue that has trickled into the game over the last decade. ALL that money, every single cent of it wound up in the pockets of the trainers, jocks and owners. Look where that has gotten us?

The general premise was give the money to purses so horsemen will run more horses and better horses and those higher quality races will beget bigger betting handles.

That didn't work out so well for racing.

The customers got ZERO dollars from the pie. Not even one cent.
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Old 09-16-2014, 04:38 PM   #9
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I wonder, how the hell can anyone possibly think closing tracks is a good idea for racing?

Look at Suffolk Downs' apparent closing. All those owners, trainers, jockeys, and breeders in Massachusetts are now out of a job. And it's not exactly easy to just pack up all your stuff and move to another state. A lot of these people are likely out of the game for good.

And, of course, there's the bigger issue: there is no racing left in New England. None. That means that the entire Boston area, not to mention everyone in New England, has no access or exposure to horse racing. How is that possibly a good thing for anyone? There's a much lower chance of people over there becoming interested in racing anymore- I mean, if someone becomes interested in racing on the 2015 Triple Crown trail, and there's no track around there to go to, how long will they stay a fan? Guys like Andy Beyer and Steve Crist got big on racing through going to tracks like Suffolk Downs. If they didn't have a track nearby, racing might be radically different.

Not to mention, people still bet other tracks at Suffolk. Do you think a lot of them are going to open up ADW accounts? Some might, but a lot of them won't. As such, handle at other tracks goes down, and other tracks suffer because of it.

Now, I'm an advocate for smaller meets for tracks- that, I think, is very important for racing. But closing tracks, and cutting off racing to a lot of people, is incredibly misguided.
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Old 09-16-2014, 04:45 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andtheyreoff
I wonder, how the hell can anyone possibly think closing tracks is a good idea for racing?

Look at Suffolk Downs' apparent closing. All those owners, trainers, jockeys, and breeders in Massachusetts are now out of a job. And it's not exactly easy to just pack up all your stuff and move to another state. A lot of these people are likely out of the game for good.

And, of course, there's the bigger issue: there is no racing left in New England. None. That means that the entire Boston area, not to mention everyone in New England, has no access or exposure to horse racing. How is that possibly a good thing for anyone? There's a much lower chance of people over there becoming interested in racing anymore- I mean, if someone becomes interested in racing on the 2015 Triple Crown trail, and there's no track around there to go to, how long will they stay a fan? Guys like Andy Beyer and Steve Crist got big on racing through going to tracks like Suffolk Downs. If they didn't have a track nearby, racing might be radically different.

Not to mention, people still bet other tracks at Suffolk. Do you think a lot of them are going to open up ADW accounts? Some might, but a lot of them won't. As such, handle at other tracks goes down, and other tracks suffer because of it.

Now, I'm an advocate for smaller meets for tracks- that, I think, is very important for racing. But closing tracks, and cutting off racing to a lot of people, is incredibly misguided.
Personal anecdote as someone who only got into this game last Summer and love it now, watching the occasional race on TV did not get me into it but rather going to a low-level track like ASD. I feel horse racing is like ice hockey, a lot easier to fall in love when you know what its like in person.

Would this make Boston maybe the biggest American city to not have a track in the area?

Last edited by cutchemist42; 09-16-2014 at 04:46 PM.
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Old 09-16-2014, 04:49 PM   #11
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When something is old and archaic doesn't it soon become obsolete? What happened to all the manufacturers of stage coaches, buggy whips and even typewriters? Those workers began new careers, and so it will be with horse racing. Contraction to 10 "hub tracks" will be the future of the Sport of Kings, the sooner the better for the "bettor". There is NO other way.....

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Old 09-16-2014, 05:49 PM   #12
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I would argue thoroughbred racing far from dead. (But it is being mismanaged.)

I would also argue horse racing's decline is self inflicted - that it is still possible in this day and age for a track to grow its horse racing business.

How?

The same way any successful business is grown:

Identify and satisfy customer needs and wants!

Here's link to an ESPN article about Kentucky Downs titled No settling at Kentucky Downs:
http://espn.go.com/horse-racing/stor...kentucky-downs

Quote:
And the payoffs are rewarding across the board in part because of the low takeouts.The takeout, of course, is the cost of betting; it's the money from the pool that goes to the track, the horsemen and the state. Reduce the takeout, and there's more money going back to the bettors. The takeout here on an exacta is 18.25, lowest in the country. The takeout on the Pick 5 is 14 percent, with 19 percent on other multi-race wagers.

"I believe many states offer a takeout rate that negatively affects the overall handle," Johnsen said, explaining that bettors notice and price makes a difference. It's basic economics, increasing sales by reducing price. "We focused on the exacta, which I think is a foundation wager for many horseplayers. ... We wanted to send a message."

And the message is that racing and horseplayers are important. It's clearly a message that's winning over fans and horseplayers, especially those who shun the frivolous and focus on the essentials. Last year, Kentucky Downs' handle jumped 70 percent from the previous season's record, to a daily average of $2.56 million.
The above article was published on Sept 6, 2014.

For those of you who might not know, this past Saturday (Sept 13, 2014) Kentucky Downs did something that would have been unthinkable a few years ago. They out-handled both Churchill Downs and Southern California:
https://twitter.com/HplayersAssnNA/s...375360/photo/1


-jp

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Old 09-16-2014, 06:16 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by cutchemist42
Personal anecdote as someone who only got into this game last Summer and love it now, watching the occasional race on TV did not get me into it but rather going to a low-level track like ASD. I feel horse racing is like ice hockey, a lot easier to fall in love when you know what its like in person.

Would this make Boston maybe the biggest American city to not have a track in the area?
2nd to Atlanta I believe
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Old 09-16-2014, 07:31 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by ReplayRandall
When something is old and archaic doesn't it soon become obsolete? What happened to all the manufacturers of stage coaches, buggy whips and even typewriters? Those workers began new careers, and so it will be with horse racing. Contraction to 10 "hub tracks" will be the future of the Sport of Kings, the sooner the better for the "bettor". There is NO other way.....
Listen to you wanting to play god. You wanna put all these people out of work and make them start fresh. Who the **** do you think you are? Think twice before you open your big mouth. Think about all the people you wanna put out of work, I'm sure that will help all of us....
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Old 09-16-2014, 07:55 PM   #15
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Listen to you wanting to play god. You wanna put all these people out of work and make them start fresh. Who the **** do you think you are? Think twice before you open your big mouth. Think about all the people you wanna put out of work, I'm sure that will help all of us....
Nobody is "playing God"...and nobody is putting anybody out of work. We may SAY "horse racing industry"...but there is no unified "industry" running this game. The game is made up of various independent entities...who are all looking out only for themselves. The pie is getting smaller, and there isn't enough of it to go around...THAT'S what's putting these people out of work.

Look at the game as it's played all around you, and ask yourself if the trainers give a shit about the horseplayer...as they parade these 5-horse fields to post in race after race. The trainers love the short fields because they increase the chances of collecting a sizable purse, and they stick to them...even though the horseplayers hate them. It's nothing but greed. But guess what...the HORSEPLAYERS are allowed to be greedy too. And we want LARGE MUTUEL POOLS...because these pools serve our OWN selfish needs. And if the only way to get these large mutuel pools is to close down certain tracks...well, so be it.

The horsemen don't care about us...so, it should be okay for us to repay the favor. Like the man said..."never underestimate the OTHER GUY'S greed".

Last edited by thaskalos; 09-16-2014 at 08:04 PM.
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