Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com - Horse Racing Message Board

Go Back   Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com - Horse Racing Message Board > Thoroughbred Horse Racing Discussion > General Racing Discussion


Reply
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 9 votes, 4.56 average.
Old 07-12-2021, 05:28 PM   #241
dilanesp
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,156
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyC View Post
Don't you think the remaining tracks got a boatload of extra handle because gamblers were limited in their options?


Contraction will necessarily bring fewer qualified trainers, jockeys, grooms, and other necessary personnel. The minor leagues of racing will be where the contraction takes place and that is where people acquire their skills to be in the big leagues.


As an old-timer in racing I acquired my love for the sport by going to live racing. I am guessing that contraction would mean that many future fans would need to get hooked via TV. I am not optimistic that racing can generate enough new interest when access to live racing is greatly diminished.
BTW, this last point is actually a truism in many sports. For instance, baseball stadiums are now smaller than they used to be, and many more seats are now bought up by corporations. So fewer families go to the ballpark.

In the long term, that probably hurts the sport. But all the teams figure they can hook the young fans through television.
dilanesp is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 07-12-2021, 05:30 PM   #242
classhandicapper
Registered User
 
classhandicapper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 18,505
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyC View Post
Don't you think the remaining tracks got a boatload of extra handle because gamblers were limited in their options?


Contraction will necessarily bring fewer qualified trainers, jockeys, grooms, and other necessary personnel. The minor leagues of racing will be where the contraction takes place and that is where people acquire their skills to be in the big leagues.


As an old-timer in racing I acquired my love for the sport by going to live racing. I am guessing that contraction would mean that many future fans would need to get hooked via TV. I am not optimistic that racing can generate enough new interest when access to live racing is greatly diminished.
I absolutely agree that the boatload of extra handle was because of fewer betting options. That's the whole point of a contraction in any business suffering from overcapacity and losses. You are removing a lot of the costs and dividing the same (or similar) revenue among the remainder.

It doesn't come without downsides. In any contraction there are going to be layoffs that hurt a lot of people. Some people may not be able to attend live racing.

It's not an easy decision. The state politics, while over my head, are probably a nightmare from hell. That's why it's taking so long. But it seems inevitable to me.
__________________
"Unlearning is the highest form of learning"

Last edited by classhandicapper; 07-12-2021 at 05:32 PM.
classhandicapper is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 07-12-2021, 05:54 PM   #243
thaskalos
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 26,911
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyC View Post
As an old-timer in racing I acquired my love for the sport by going to live racing. I am guessing that contraction would mean that many future fans would need to get hooked via TV. I am not optimistic that racing can generate enough new interest when access to live racing is greatly diminished.
I too am an old-timer who fell in love with the live version of this game...but that's where our similarity ends. Because I happen to think that the TV-version that our game has evolved to is the only long-term survival chance that the game has. In today's gambling-happy atmosphere...there is no chance at all for a game that emphasizes "pageantry"...while offering only one betting opportunity every 25 minutes or so. Even if a gambling newcomer were to visit a racetrack today, he would barely notice the pageantry of the live product...because he would be deep in the bowels of the place at the simulcast center, watching and betting on the product by way of the TVs.

Last edited by thaskalos; 07-12-2021 at 05:58 PM.
thaskalos is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 07-13-2021, 01:01 PM   #244
AndyC
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,002
Quote:
Originally Posted by thaskalos View Post
I too am an old-timer who fell in love with the live version of this game...but that's where our similarity ends. Because I happen to think that the TV-version that our game has evolved to is the only long-term survival chance that the game has. In today's gambling-happy atmosphere...there is no chance at all for a game that emphasizes "pageantry"...while offering only one betting opportunity every 25 minutes or so. Even if a gambling newcomer were to visit a racetrack today, he would barely notice the pageantry of the live product...because he would be deep in the bowels of the place at the simulcast center, watching and betting on the product by way of the TVs.



I just think that the live racing is the hook. TV is definitely the life line. The question is what will draw a person to the TV in the first place and what will keep them there?
__________________
So many people these days are too judgemental. I can tell just by looking at them.
AndyC is online now   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 07-13-2021, 01:13 PM   #245
AndyC
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,002
Quote:
Originally Posted by classhandicapper View Post
I absolutely agree that the boatload of extra handle was because of fewer betting options. That's the whole point of a contraction in any business suffering from overcapacity and losses. You are removing a lot of the costs and dividing the same (or similar) revenue among the remainder.

It doesn't come without downsides. In any contraction there are going to be layoffs that hurt a lot of people. Some people may not be able to attend live racing.

It's not an easy decision. The state politics, while over my head, are probably a nightmare from hell. That's why it's taking so long. But it seems inevitable to me.

How can racing expect to broaden their base with fewer and fewer opportunities for exposure? I get that some businesses try to expand too fast and are eventually forced into a contraction period. Racing has been in a long contraction phase and I doubt that more contraction is the cure.
__________________
So many people these days are too judgemental. I can tell just by looking at them.
AndyC is online now   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 07-13-2021, 01:14 PM   #246
classhandicapper
Registered User
 
classhandicapper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 18,505
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyC View Post
I just think that the live racing is the hook. TV is definitely the life line. The question is what will draw a person to the TV in the first place and what will keep them there?
I absolutely love going to the paddock and being part of live racing, but honestly, other than big race days and certain meets, no one goes anymore anyway.
__________________
"Unlearning is the highest form of learning"
classhandicapper is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 07-13-2021, 01:18 PM   #247
AndyC
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,002
Quote:
Originally Posted by dilanesp View Post
BTW, this last point is actually a truism in many sports. For instance, baseball stadiums are now smaller than they used to be, and many more seats are now bought up by corporations. So fewer families go to the ballpark.

In the long term, that probably hurts the sport. But all the teams figure they can hook the young fans through television.

All sports that are popular on TV are being experienced by kids through their schools, little leagues, Pop Warner, etc. It is much easier to get immersed in the TV product when you fully understand the game.
__________________
So many people these days are too judgemental. I can tell just by looking at them.
AndyC is online now   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 12-14-2021, 03:24 AM   #248
OwenStawell
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2021
Posts: 6
this is definitely a show that should not disappear from TV
OwenStawell is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 05-18-2022, 10:51 PM   #249
davew
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 18,915
have Hastings and Emerald Downs been weekend tracks for long?
davew is online now   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 05-19-2022, 02:34 PM   #250
Parkview_Pirate
Registered User
 
Parkview_Pirate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,816
I believe they both ran some weekdays before the pandemic. Hastings shows a couple of weeks of Mon-Tue racing in late August on their calendar.

It's very difficult now to find a "bettable" card, IMHO, for most tracks in North America. Thask mentioned he has trouble finding weekday cards worth betting, but I can't even find very many cards on the weekends worth going through. Seeing races with 10+ horses restricted to state breds, maiden claimers or turf races (which often find many scratches/MTO horses), it's racing's "Big Days" now, and that's about it.

Even Australia and Hong Kong have been fielding races with fewer entrants. Contraction appears to be arriving pretty quickly now.
Parkview_Pirate is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 05-21-2022, 11:45 PM   #251
davew
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 18,915
Emerald Downs is in its 27th season? I have to make it this year for the 87th renewal of the $150,000 Longacres Mile on Sunday, Aug. 14.


If I don't this season, I might never see the facility which looks nice in the pictures.
davew is online now   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 05-22-2022, 11:57 PM   #252
dilanesp
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,156
Quote:
Originally Posted by davew View Post
Emerald Downs is in its 27th season? I have to make it this year for the 87th renewal of the $150,000 Longacres Mile on Sunday, Aug. 14.


If I don't this season, I might never see the facility which looks nice in the pictures.
To show you where the sport is now, the '86 Mile, which I attended, was either 250K or 300K (I forgot which).
dilanesp is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 05-23-2022, 11:21 AM   #253
affirmedny
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 902
Quote:
Originally Posted by dilanesp View Post
To show you where the sport is now, the '86 Mile, which I attended, was either 250K or 300K (I forgot which).

affirmedny is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 05-23-2022, 12:24 PM   #254
dilanesp
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,156
Quote:
Originally Posted by affirmedny View Post
I don't think that ESPN was right in that telecast. Skywalker's winner's share was $177,000 (this is confirmed by multiple sources), so it's almost impossible that the race was a $200,000 race (because that would mean the winner got almost 90% of the purse- even with "added" money it seems hard to fathom, as the entry fees would have had to have been huge for Skywalker to make that much from a $200k added purse). It was either $250,000 or $300,000.

EDIT: This source lists it as $290,000. That comports with the $177,000 winner's share.

https://www.sportsbetting3.com/horse...rade-all-races

Last edited by dilanesp; 05-23-2022 at 12:29 PM.
dilanesp is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 05-23-2022, 12:46 PM   #255
Clocker
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 17,095
Quote:
Originally Posted by castaway01 View Post
In 1992, there were over 70,000 horse races run in the United States.

In 2008, it was slightly over 50,000 races.

In 2020, it was 27,700 races.
How many of those races in 1992 had only 6 horses? How many in 2020? That's additional hidden contraction for me. I seldom if ever bet on a 6 horse race. You can't get playable odds.
__________________
A man's got to know his limitations. -- Dirty Harry
Clocker is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Reply




Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

» Advertisement
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:49 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 1999 - 2022 -- PaceAdvantage.Com -- All Rights Reserved
We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program
designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.