The Greatest of All Time - Bob Baffert

[classhandicapper]

While we are waiting, take a look at the Sorrento Stakes at Del Mar on Aug 6th.

Baffert saddled the #3 Eda.

The 6/5 favorite was the #2 Smash Ticket.

#3 Eda broke in, took out out the favorite (badly) and went on to just miss to another strong contender. The favorite finished a well beaten 3rd after making a nice run and was not all out through the stretch when hopelessly beaten but having 3rd secured.

Bumps occur all the time at the break. I'm also sensitive to the risk that when you are looking for something you'll find it and confirm your impressions. You want to try to avoid that kind of misleading bias. But I have to call BS on this. One of Baffert's horses breaks in or out and takes out the main competition so often I refuse to believe it's an accident. In fact, I think I'm starting to get more pissed off about that kind of thing and tag teaming other horses than the occasional microscopic therapeutic positives he has that have way less impact on a race.

[taxicab]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

While we are waiting, take a look at the Sorrento Stakes at Del Mar on Aug 6th.

Baffert saddled the #3 Eda.

The 6/5 favorite was the #2 Smash Ticket.

#3 Eda broke in, took out out the favorite (badly) and went on to just miss to another strong contender. The favorite finished a well beaten 3rd after making a nice run and was not all out through the stretch when hopelessly beaten but having 3rd secured.

Bumps occur all the time at the break. I'm also sensitive to the risk that when you are looking for something you'll find it and confirm your impressions. You want to try to avoid that kind of misleading bias. But I have to call BS on this. One of Baffert's horses breaks in or out and takes out the main competition so often I refuse to believe it's an accident. In fact, I think I'm starting to get more pissed off about that kind of thing and tag teaming other horses than the occasional microscopic therapeutic positives he has that have way less impact on a race.

I'm glad you brought the Sorrento up,I was too lazy to start a thread on it.
It didn't go unnoticed (CJ among others mentioned it on Twitter).
Simply put......Baffert had Cedillo take the much better horse out of the race with a really dirty move,the reason I state this with such conviction is because it happens time and time again with Baffert.
What really seems odd to me is Baffert gets away with this crap all the time.....nobody does anything to bring his dirty tactics to a halt.
You would think that other trainers/owners or officials would do something about it.....but no,it's business as usual.
Bunch of cowards all around.
FWIW:
Phil D had Cathkin Peak in need of a race yesterday in the Lajolla.......and CP gave the Baffert well meant chalk (Hudson Ridge) a solid shot out of the gate......it might of been enough to cost Hudson the race.
Interestingly enough,Baffert hasn't won a stakes race @ DMR yet.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by taxicab

I'm glad you brought the Sorrento up,I was too lazy to start a thread on it.
It didn't go unnoticed (CJ among others mentioned it on Twitter).
Simply put......Baffert had Cedillo take the much better horse out of the race with a really dirty move,the reason I state this with such conviction is because it happens time and time again with Baffert.
What really seems odd to me is Baffert gets away with this crap all the time.....nobody does anything to bring his dirty tactics to a halt.
You would think that other trainers/owners or officials would do something about it.....but no,it's business as usual.
Bunch of cowards all around.
FWIW:
Phil D had Cathkin Peak in need of a race yesterday in the Lajolla.......and CP gave the Baffert well meant chalk (Hudson Ridge) a solid shot out of the gate......it might of been enough to cost Hudson the race.
Interestingly enough,Baffert hasn't won a stakes race @ DMR yet.

Obviously the California officials are in the tank for Baffert- he's our best trainer and fills our races, gives us high quality stakes horses who win the biggest races, etc. Officials who will go so far as to commit felonies (literally- they deliberately violated the Brown Act) to ensure a doped Baffert horse is not disqualified will basically do anything for him.

In these cases, I think the favoritism towards Baffert intersects with something else as well- the practice (which has been discussed here periodically) to give horses the first couple of jumps out of the gate. I am fine with that latter practice as a matter of DQ's, but that's a separate issue from whether a trainer who does that over and over again should have a trainer's license in California.

The reality is that the only way we ever remove all the rot here is to do something that is absolutely anathema to people in the industry- put people in charge who have no connections or interests whatsoever in the horse racing business. Put people in there who don't care if it's Bob Baffert or Bob Smith. Because those sorts of people, given everything we know, would ban Baffert for life.

(There is actually one other thing that could have worked- if the CHRB members and all of their accomplices who conspired on the Justify thing had been prosecuted for Brown Act violations. Seeing a bunch of regulators go to state prison for corruption would have been a game changer, even if the people who replaced them came from the industry. Sadly, that was never in the cards.)

[Gamblin4ever]

Originally Posted by Psychotic Parakeet

I've given up on any sliver of justice in this whole case. I really have. Baffert has won again.

I agree.

[cj]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

While we are waiting, take a look at the Sorrento Stakes at Del Mar on Aug 6th.

Baffert saddled the #3 Eda.

The 6/5 favorite was the #2 Smash Ticket.

#3 Eda broke in, took out out the favorite (badly) and went on to just miss to another strong contender. The favorite finished a well beaten 3rd after making a nice run and was not all out through the stretch when hopelessly beaten but having 3rd secured.

Bumps occur all the time at the break. I'm also sensitive to the risk that when you are looking for something you'll find it and confirm your impressions. You want to try to avoid that kind of misleading bias. But I have to call BS on this. One of Baffert's horses breaks in or out and takes out the main competition so often I refuse to believe it's an accident. In fact, I think I'm starting to get more pissed off about that kind of thing and tag teaming other horses than the occasional microscopic therapeutic positives he has that have way less impact on a race.

It sure does seem to happen with his horses way more than average.

[Gamblin4ever]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

Obviously the California officials are in the tank for Baffert- he's our best trainer and fills our races, gives us high quality stakes horses who win the biggest races, etc. Officials who will go so far as to commit felonies (literally- they deliberately violated the Brown Act) to ensure a doped Baffert horse is not disqualified will basically do anything for him.

In these cases, I think the favoritism towards Baffert intersects with something else as well- the practice (which has been discussed here periodically) to give horses the first couple of jumps out of the gate. I am fine with that latter practice as a matter of DQ's, but that's a separate issue from whether a trainer who does that over and over again should have a trainer's license in California.

The reality is that the only way we ever remove all the rot here is to do something that is absolutely anathema to people in the industry- put people in charge who have no connections or interests whatsoever in the horse racing business. Put people in there who don't care if it's Bob Baffert or Bob Smith. Because those sorts of people, given everything we know, would ban Baffert for life.

(There is actually one other thing that could have worked- if the CHRB members and all of their accomplices who conspired on the Justify thing had been prosecuted for Brown Act violations. Seeing a bunch of regulators go to state prison for corruption would have been a game changer, even if the people who replaced them came from the industry. Sadly, that was never in the cards.)

In 2014 when Bayern won BC Classic, He wiped out Shared Belief and others when the gate opened. The Stewards ruled that the affected horses still had a chance to win, No DQ. Same thing here.

[cj]

Originally Posted by Gamblin4ever

In 2014 when Bayern won BC Classic, He wiped out Shared Belief and others when the gate opened. The Stewards ruled that the affected horses still had a chance to win, No DQ. Same thing here.

But, that precedent has changed in SoCal as of late. There have been several DQs for incidents at the start the past few years.

[Gamblin4ever]

Originally Posted by cj

But, that precedent has changed in SoCal as of late. There have been several DQs for incidents at the start the past few years.

Where the DQs involving Baffert horses? That was my point of Bayern. Baffert trained, no DQ. Sorry I didn't articulate point better.

[cj]

Originally Posted by Gamblin4ever

Where the DQs involving Baffert horses? That was my point of Bayern. Baffert trained, no DQ. Sorry I didn't articulate point better.

I'm not sure to be honest. I remember for a long time, they simply didn't DQ for basically anything at the start in SoCal. I'm pretty sure a jock could have shot another rider at the start and not be DQed. But it did change. I don't remember it being related to the trainer but I could be wrong.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by cj

I'm not sure to be honest. I remember for a long time, they simply didn't DQ for basically anything at the start in SoCal. I'm pretty sure a jock could have shot another rider at the start and not be DQed. But it did change. I don't remember it being related to the trainer but I could be wrong.

They still don't.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by cj

But, that precedent has changed in SoCal as of late. There have been several DQs for incidents at the start the past few years.

There's been a handful.. it's still very rare.

[classhandicapper]

I'm not even sure what the best rule is for the start of races. There's inevitably going to be some bumping. We can't disqualify everyone that bumps at the start. But you can't allow a situation where the riders know they can take out a major competitor at the start and won't get disqualified, especially if it's a certain trainer's horse. It's a tough thing to prove something like that. It's dangerous on top of being scummy, but there have been too many instances of starts like that and also accusations of tag team riding to totally ignore.

[cj]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

There's been a handful.. it's still very rare.

That is just semantics now. It used to be never, been at least five or six in the past year. Clearly a change. My guess is the gap between 2nd and 3rd was too large in this instance, it was at least a dozen lengths. But in my opinion it very likely cost a placing despite the gap. But it is Bob so I guess they are still afraid of him.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

I'm not even sure what the best rule is for the start of races. There's inevitably going to be some bumping. We can't disqualify everyone that bumps at the start. But you can't allow a situation where the riders know they can take out a major competitor at the start and won't get disqualified, especially if it's a certain trainer's horse. It's a tough thing to prove something like that. It's dangerous on top of being scummy, but there have been too many instances of starts like that and also accusations of tag team riding to totally ignore.

The thing is for some things, the best tool is suspensions rather than DQ's. Incidents at the start are one of them. The common sense of the California practice is/was that lots of horses recover from bad starts anyway and you can't really say whether any foul cost a horse a placing.

But if there's any indication a trainer or jockey is deliberately doing this, they should get a stiff suspension.

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by Gamblin4ever

In 2014 when Bayern won BC Classic, He wiped out Shared Belief and others when the gate opened. The Stewards ruled that the affected horses still had a chance to win, No DQ. Same thing here.

Sure feels like Shared Belief wins that race without that incident, he was only beaten a couple lengths if my memory is correct.