The Greatest of All Time - Bob Baffert

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by Blenheim

I don't know if the RICO Doping Suit against Baffert has been discussed in this thread.

Bob Baffert, the trainer of winning Kentucky Derby horse Medina Spirit who was later found to have been doped with a performance-enhancing substance, was hit with a racketeering suit in California federal court by bettors who had money on the second place finisher.

The proposed class action, filed Thursday in the U.S. District Court for the Central District of California, seeks to pursue claims on behalf of all Kentucky Derby bettors who would have “won their bets and winnings had Medina Spirit been properly prohibited from competing in the Kentucky Derby on May 1, 2021 or competed without the aid of an illegal drug.”

Question:
If the betamethasone is found to be administered through Otomax will that benefit the defendant?


Question:
If the betamethasone is not found to be to administered through Otomax will that benefit the plaintiff[s]?

That suit has little chance anyway. The law is clear that bettors assume the risk of this stuff.

[cj]

Originally Posted by GMB@BP

The Vets play a huge part in the whole scheme...learned a long time ago, you take care of your vets.

Exactly why I'd love to see vets hired by the track or the state, not private. At the very least anything that legally goes into the horse has to be approved by a vet not working for the connections.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by cj

Exactly why I'd love to see vets hired by the track or the state, not private. At the very least anything that legally goes into the horse has to be approved by a vet not working for the connections.

That would be a good rule.

But you would also need very close screening of the vets who were hired. Because I think some racing commissions might have hired Dr. Alex Harthill back in the day.

[Blenheim]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

That suit has little chance anyway. The law is clear that bettors assume the risk of this stuff.

Bettor Awarded 20k After Charging He Was Cheated By Horse Dopers

Bettor Receives $20,000 In Horse Doping Lawsuit

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by Blenheim

Bettor Awarded 20k After Charging He Was Cheated By Horse Dopers

Bettor Receives $20,000 In Horse Doping Lawsuit

That was a settlement, not an award from a court. I have cited and quoted caselaw on this upthread.

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

The KHRC decides what you can't test positive for. Even if Baffert weren't cheating (and there's zero reason to think this), it wouldn't matter. His job is to keep substances that will result in positive tests away from his horses, and he has plenty of money to do it.

I don't mind people hiring lawyers for situations where there's something to argue. But Baffert (1) has no argument under the text of the rules and (2) filed a frivolous premature lawsuit to try and strongarm the KHRC.

You are obviously very passionate about the drug issue. I think a lot of us are.

There's a lot of evidence for the usage of Otomax.

1. Pictures and independent reports of the horse having a skin condition that would likely be treated with something.

2. Baffert admitting using Otomax. That makes him look bad enough. It makes him look dumb and irresponsible and will likely be grounds for a DQ and a suspension.

3. A vet report that supposedly says Otomax was used

Beyond that I'm still not sure why you can't see the difference between an injection positive and an Otomax positive. It will likely make no difference in terms of the DQ. However, if he can demonstrate Otomax was in the horse's system it SHOULD be a factor in the length of any suspension and will change public perception. Of course he and the owners are going to try to prevent a DQ too. Why wouldn't they. imo they will fail.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

You are obviously very passionate about the drug issue. I think a lot of us are.

There's a lot of evidence for the usage of Otomax.

1. Pictures and independent reports of the horse having a skin condition that would likely be treated with something.

2. Baffert admitting using Otomax. That makes him look bad enough. It makes him look dumb and irresponsible and will likely be grounds for a DQ and a suspension.

3. A vet report that supposedly says Otomax was used

Beyond that I'm still not sure why you can't see the difference between an injection positive and an Otomax positive. It will likely make no difference in terms of the DQ. However, if he can demonstrate Otomax was in the horse's system it SHOULD be a factor in the length of any suspension and will change public perception. Of course he and the owners are going to try to prevent a DQ too. Why wouldn't they. imo they will fail.

class, he's got priors.

When OJ tried an armed robbery, he got 33 years (9 years actual prison time). Anyone without priors might have gotten a year.

When you have priors:

1. You are more likely to be guilty. This is underappreciated, but ALL of those priors involved lying. It's not like when Baffert does cheat, he says "you got me, I was cheating". So the KHRC has every right to say "we don't believe you" to him.

2. There is a significant interest in punishing him harsher. Because it means that earlier discipline did not deter him.

The other thing is this is the Derby. He gave the sport a black eye on it's biggest day.

He has to be harshly punished.

[GMB@BP]

I find it odd people are so upset at Baffert, who is clearly gaming the system, yet there seems to be little outrage at the system who is allowing him to game it. I assume most people realize Baffert is in a large group who are doing this?

If your betting today, you should do it knowing you are playing many trainers who do the very same thing, some of these trainers have extensive pasts just like Baffert.

I wonder if it wasnt for CRW teams propping up the handle that racing might have decided long ago to put a stop to all these shenanigans? People have left betting on this sport, obviously as handle is way down from 20 years ago, but it would be paltry without out the CRW teams.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by GMB@BP

I find it odd people are so upset at Baffert, who is clearly gaming the system, yet there seems to be little outrage at the system who is allowing him to game it. I assume most people realize Baffert is in a large group who are doing this?

If your betting today, you should do it knowing you are playing many trainers who do the very same thing, some of these trainers have extensive pasts just like Baffert.

I wonder if it wasnt for CRW teams propping up the handle that racing might have decided long ago to put a stop to all these shenanigans? People have left betting on this sport, obviously as handle is way down from 20 years ago, but it would be paltry without out the CRW teams.

I very much realize that. If Baffert came forward and said "yeah, I have repeatedly cheated, and I am going to turn state's evidence and testify fully about all the vets, all the dealers, and everyone I know who did these things", I WOULD argue for lenience. And yes, like every other sport with a PED problem, it's systematic. It's not one person.

But the only way to change this dynamic is to start handing out swift, certain, harsh punishments.

In other words, you can't throw up your hands and say "it's systematic" and go back to the 10 day suspensions and cover ups of positive tests. The way you break that is when trainers start realizing that every positive test is going to mean a couple of years or something. Make the cost huge.

In track and field, one positive test is 2 years and two of them is a lifetime ban. Think about the deterrent effect of that.

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

I very much realize that. If Baffert came forward and said "yeah, I have repeatedly cheated, and I am going to turn state's evidence and testify fully about all the vets, all the dealers, and everyone I know who did these things", I WOULD argue for lenience. And yes, like every other sport with a PED problem, it's systematic. It's not one person.

But the only way to change this dynamic is to start handing out swift, certain, harsh punishments.

In other words, you can't throw up your hands and say "it's systematic" and go back to the 10 day suspensions and cover ups of positive tests. The way you break that is when trainers start realizing that every positive test is going to mean a couple of years or something. Make the cost huge.

In track and field, one positive test is 2 years and two of them is a lifetime ban. Think about the deterrent effect of that.

Like I said in the thread I started, NYRA could have told John Sadler to stay home on the Belmont card after his Class 1 positive was officially confirmed.

I am all for taking a stand. Who is going to actually due it?

[zico20]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

class, he's got priors.

When OJ tried an armed robbery, he got 33 years (9 years actual prison time). Anyone without priors might have gotten a year.

When you have priors:

1. You are more likely to be guilty. This is underappreciated, but ALL of those priors involved lying. It's not like when Baffert does cheat, he says "you got me, I was cheating". So the KHRC has every right to say "we don't believe you" to him.

2. There is a significant interest in punishing him harsher. Because it means that earlier discipline did not deter him.

The other thing is this is the Derby. He gave the sport a black eye on it's biggest day.

He has to be harshly punished.

So rubbing some cream on a horses ass should be a long suspension and a DQ? Maybe next year a trainer can sneak into the barns and rub that on the other 19 horses and he will win the Derby by default just for crossing the finish line as they all get disqualified.

[Elkchester Road]

Originally Posted by zico20

So rubbing some cream on a horses ass should be a long suspension and a DQ? Maybe next year a trainer can sneak into the barns and rub that on the other 19 horses and he will win the Derby by default just for crossing the finish line as they all get disqualified.

Once again...Absolute Insurer Rule.

[cj]

Originally Posted by zico20

So rubbing some cream on a horses ass should be a long suspension and a DQ? Maybe next year a trainer can sneak into the barns and rub that on the other 19 horses and he will win the Derby by default just for crossing the finish line as they all get disqualified.

We just believing Baffert now?

[Psychotic Parakeet]

Originally Posted by GMB@BP

I find it odd people are so upset at Baffert, who is clearly gaming the system, yet there seems to be little outrage at the system who is allowing him to game it.

Honestly, if the CHRB had any shred of competence, then he would've been ruled off a long time ago.

[Robert Fischer]

2022 Kentucky Derby Winning Trainer is........


...


...


Jimmy Barnes!!


Greatest game in the world