Mr. b

[Show Me the Wire]

MR. B and TVG

[joanied]

Originally Posted by TJDave

Secretariat was head/shoulder above any horse, EVER. However, had Sham been sound he would have beaten Secretariat in the Whitney.

Not because he was better, but his trainer was.

Well, that is a maybe....maybe, maybe, maybe...you do know the big horse was not well when he ran in the Whitney....but, that isn't the point of this thread...we're talking about wether or not horses know they have won or lost a race...
I was crazy about Sham, and it's a shame he came along in the same year as Secretariat...but, those that understand the mind of these horses, understand that they do know...and poor Sham finishing 2nd to Big Red in the Derby & Preakness, and then trying his heart out at the beginning of the Belmont, only to finish so far behind the field...
it broke his heart...(and mine).

[lilmegahertz]

Originally Posted by WinterTriangle

Swale and Joanied are correct.



I can assure you that my DOGS would not get on the elevator. I've been in all kinds of situation with them, and they follow their instincts. They don't think about it, they just go with their gut. I was saved from stepping on a water mocassin last year because of that.

Why a horse may not load can be for any number of reasons, from simply not in the mood to sensing something that they perceive as dangerous to them.

True. When I was single, I would let the guys know that if my dog did not like them, then the guy had to go bye-bye because my dog would sense something was not right.

And if you read Seabiscuit....after the great match race....Wolf said he thought War Admiral had no heart before the race. After the race he looked back and saw The Admiral with head hung down, walking slowly,looking defeated in his body language and Wolf said he was wrong. War Admiral DID have heart.

[TJDave]

Originally Posted by joanied

you do know the big horse was not well when he ran in the Whitney.

That's a diplomatic way to put it.

Yeah, good horses know...and Sham was all heart. My point was any match up with 'Big Red' was inherently unfair.

And to the above:
The fact Secretariat lost any race except his maiden was a crime.

[castaway01]

Originally Posted by joanied

Well, that is a maybe....maybe, maybe, maybe...you do know the big horse was not well when he ran in the Whitney....but, that isn't the point of this thread...we're talking about wether or not horses know they have won or lost a race...
I was crazy about Sham, and it's a shame he came along in the same year as Secretariat...but, those that understand the mind of these horses, understand that they do know...and poor Sham finishing 2nd to Big Red in the Derby & Preakness, and then trying his heart out at the beginning of the Belmont, only to finish so far behind the field...
it broke his heart...(and mine).

joanie, sometimes your posts get a little (a lot) too sappy for me, but I'm going to agree with you---if there was ever a competitive horse who had his heart "broken" by another, it was Sham by Secretariat.

[TJDave]

Originally Posted by castaway01

if there was ever a competitive horse who had his heart "broken" by another, it was Sham by Secretariat.

What leads you to that conclusion?

Sham was retired and never had the chance to redeem himself.

And...I don't think he quit, ever. Wasn't he eased in the Belmont?

[Canarsie]

I can only use a NJ account but I think the fees will be dropped forever. On the back of the DRF from Dec 5 it say 3 months free while on the tube it says the end of the year. They are all fighting for the same customer there aren't many new ones.

I still think we are way better off with TVG I just watch it less now because those "free" plugs are getting very annoying. But the hosts are forced to say them bet it bugs them too.

Criticizing someone for having a TVG account is equivalent to doing the same thing to someone who plays "exotics" at Pa. or Canadian tracks. It's a matter of choice though I would put my money elsewhere if it was available to me.

The one thing I do like about my NJ account is with a 20 minute ride I get hard "cash" anytime I want. Having said that other ADW's have better features like ROI's at an individual track that I would really like to have access to.

[Jackal]

Originally Posted by swale84

You must not have worked around horses...of course they know when they win. Its a competition to them also. And most feed is put into a feed tub....not a feed bag

I am not certain if horses know when they win. I do know most racehorses are "hams" they love attention. Usually when a horse wins it's lavished with attention and someone goes to the tack shop to buy a treat for the horse. Another thing horses are excellent at perceiving the mood of their handlers.

It's possible trainers and owners can prevent a let down by treating the horse as winner each time it races - win or lose.

[jasperson]

What does winning races have to do with loading into the starting gate?
Does Bob really think horses know that they've won??
I think all the horses really know is that a feedbag is waiting for them back at the barn.
Ben[/QUOTE]

Sure they do. We had a horse at LAD the was photo'ed out but was really ahead at the finish line but his nose was down. He refused to go to the barn until they took him to the winners circle

[rwwupl]

I have a lot of respect for MR."B"

Bob grew up in a household headed by a true,icon of handicapping "Bud"Baedeker. On opening day at Hollywood, 1950, the Baedeker Guide had all 7 winners on top of his TipSheet, a world record.

Bobs dad "Bud" and Buds brother Jack were pioneers selling tip sheets at So. Ca. racetracks in 1938.

Bobs brother Rick was once President of Hollywood Park. Toby Turrell is Buds Grandson.

Bobs father Bud Baedeker whose real name was Fred Martin, grew up in Chicago where he once worked as a caddie for Al Capone. He came to Ca. when he was 19 and carved out a new career with horseracing.

This poster learned a great deal about handicapping from father Bud when I tried to sit as close as I could as a young man every day in the grandstand at Santa Anita, after the tipsheet sales were over, and attended his seminars when he would breakdown the races and explain the reasons. Bob and Rick were just kids then.

Bob learned well from his father and continued to publish "Baedekers Guide", in my opinion the best of all tip sheets. Father Bud and son Bob give 100% to their passion,Horseracing and I could not recommend anyone more honest.

Mr. B is a giant credit to the game. He and his family have given us the best they have for a lifetime.

rwwupl

[joanied]

Originally Posted by TJDave

That's a diplomatic way to put it.

Yeah, good horses know...and Sham was all heart. My point was any match up with 'Big Red' was inherently unfair.

And to the above:
The fact Secretariat lost any race except his maiden was a crime.

Yes. If you go back and know what was going on, very true...he never should have lost a race...your point is well taken

[joanied]

Originally Posted by castaway01

joanie, sometimes your posts get a little (a lot) too sappy for me, but I'm going to agree with you---if there was ever a competitive horse who had his heart "broken" by another, it was Sham by Secretariat.

castaway01...sorry my posts seem 'sappy' to you...it's unfortunate that when someone posts with emotion, it's taken as being 'sappy'...if there was ever a sport that brings out the emotions of those that love it...horse racing is it.
But, good to know you agree about Sham

[Marshall Bennett]

Originally Posted by jasperson

Sure they do. We had a horse at LAD the was photo'ed out but was really ahead at the finish line but his nose was down. He refused to go to the barn until they took him to the winners circle

[rokitman]

Originally Posted by sandpit

He may be off base quite a bit, but I am certain that some horses know when they win or lose. I took care of a filly that used to sulk for 3 or 4 days after a losing race, but when she won you could hardly keep her on the ground for a week. They all aren't like that, but she was.

You're not speaking from experience and using facts, are you? You, sir, are going to have to forfeit your membership to the Internet.

[TJDave]

Originally Posted by TJDave

good horses know

I'd like to modify that a bit.

ALL horses know.

Some care, some don't.

And most, through no fault of their own, aren't given the opportunity.