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11-12-2018, 07:19 PM
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#166
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 5,597
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elysiantraveller
The constant complaint on this forum is that Europe gets "free protection" from the United States. Macron is rebuking that by stating Europe should just protect itself.
He's pissed because Macron's statement says absolutely nothing about NATO but that Europe needs to integrate and re-arm to deal with rivals without American help:
A Europe less reliant on United States military might is a Europe far less willing to tow whatever line we tell them to.
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And as I mentioned, I personally am all for this! If we pay for them, we tell them what to do. If we don't, they can grow up and be adults and pay for themselves!!
Its no different then parenthood!
__________________
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men,deriving their just powers from the consent of the
governed.
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11-12-2018, 07:30 PM
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#167
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14,036
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newtothegame
And as I mentioned, I personally am all for this! If we pay for them, we tell them what to do. If we don't, they can grow up and be adults and pay for themselves!!
Its no different then parenthood!
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This isn't sinking in with you...
A Europe less reliant on United States military might is a Europe far less willing to tow whatever line we tell them to.
A more autonomous Europe tells us to kick rocks when it comes to things like Iran, Israel, they definitely hate the Saudis, don't care much for Turkey, like the idea of a Kurdish state, etc. etc.
Its LESS LEVERAGE for the United States.
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11-12-2018, 08:34 PM
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#168
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 5,597
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elysiantraveller
This isn't sinking in with you...
A Europe less reliant on United States military might is a Europe far less willing to tow whatever line we tell them to.
A more autonomous Europe tells us to kick rocks when it comes to things like Iran, Israel, they definitely hate the Saudis, don't care much for Turkey, like the idea of a Kurdish state, etc. etc.
Its LESS LEVERAGE for the United States.
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OK, its sinking in fine with me...YOU are the one who didn't understand what I wrote so let me spell it out again for you.....
IF (and that's a big IF), IF we pay for them, we tell them what to do!!
If they want to be on their own, THEY pay for themselves ands grow up into adulthood! (Which I am all for )
Now I am fully aware that they can tell us to kick rocks (down that path) and again I am ok with that as NONE of them can truly do without us anyway!
But I am all for them trying to gain their own foothold.
We can more than handle any and all of those countries on our own and don't need their (EU) approvals.
__________________
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men,deriving their just powers from the consent of the
governed.
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11-12-2018, 10:15 PM
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#169
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14,036
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newtothegame
OK, its sinking in fine with me...YOU are the one who didn't understand what I wrote so let me spell it out again for you.....
IF (and that's a big IF), IF we pay for them, we tell them what to do!!
If they want to be on their own, THEY pay for themselves ands grow up into adulthood! (Which I am all for )
Now I am fully aware that they can tell us to kick rocks (down that path) and again I am ok with that as NONE of them can truly do without us anyway!
But I am all for them trying to gain their own foothold.
We can more than handle any and all of those countries on our own and don't need their (EU) approvals.
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I thought we do pay for them...
You have been arguing that with me for months on the NATO side of things... now you are saying thats a big if?
I can't keep up with where the goalposts are with any of you these days...
But fine... I'll lets say I grant you everything you just said... why is Trump pissed off then?
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11-12-2018, 10:18 PM
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#170
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 5,597
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elysiantraveller
I thought we do pay for them...
You have been arguing that with me for months on the NATO side of things... now you are saying thats a big if?
I can't keep up with where the goalposts are with any of you these days...
But fine... I'll grant you everything you just said... why is Trump pissed off then?
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No, I am not saying IF as in now, I am saying as IF as in globing forward. .
They want their own military and their own decisions, I AM FINE WITH THAT.
We don't pay for anything for them and they can make all the decisions they want. Stop trying to change what was said......
The only one moving goal posts is YOU.
I never said anywhere (as of this moment and previously) that we aren't paying for them. WE ARE MOST ASSUREDLY PAYING MORE THEN THEM.
I am saying the big IF as in GOING FORWARD....clear enough for you?????
As to trump and his thoughts...again, YOU WOULD have to ask him as you seem to know what he thinks, what he should think, and what he will think all the time.
Ive never proposed to own that mantle...thats all yours Know It All Ely!!! 
__________________
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men,deriving their just powers from the consent of the
governed.
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11-12-2018, 10:36 PM
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#171
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14,036
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newtothegame
No, I am not saying IF as in now, I am saying as IF as in globing forward. .
They want their own military and their own decisions, I AM FINE WITH THAT.
We don't pay for anything for them and they can make all the decisions they want. Stop trying to change what was said......
The only one moving goal posts is YOU.
I never said anywhere (as of this moment and previously) that we aren't paying for them. WE ARE MOST ASSUREDLY PAYING MORE THEN THEM.
I am saying the big IF as in GOING FORWARD....clear enough for you?????
As to trump and his thoughts...again, YOU WOULD have to ask him as you seem to know what he thinks, what he should think, and what he will think all the time.
Ive never proposed to own that mantle...thats all yours Know It All Ely!!! |
Trump is pissed because the EU. Particularly Germany and France are telling him in no small terms that they aren't that interested in a deepening of the alliance and that if push comes to shove the idea of a Combined Forces Europe seems better than deepening ties with the United States.
The push in this case has been the roughshod and reckless approach of this Administration and the now realization that they can't simply bully everyone into compliance.
Its a sign of weakening control of Europe by the United States...
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11-12-2018, 11:22 PM
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#172
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 4,900
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hcap
There is a constant drumbeat against dems an liberals and progressives here and out there. Grow up and feel the rightful deserved resentment, particularly after Trumpism was repudiated Nov 7tgh. Well I continue to repudiate it and it's hateful rotten rhetoric
I do not apologize for my politics. And I was re-iterating there is no equivalency on both sides which I think Gus was kind enough to extend to all the Chumpsters wrongly. I will try to not make personal judgements, based on politics, in most cases , but the record of insults aimed at me FIRST DOES MALE THAT TOUGHThere is no end of people like Andy A insulting libs and progressives.
Why not call him out?
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Originally Posted by hcap
these Chumpsters will not change no matter what.
the cold reality is one side consists of mostly lunatics.
Name-callinghas been banned here, yet you persist...very much more so than anyone else. In my view, because of bias, you're getting a pass. How "kind" of Gus to extend HIS bias to all the "Chumpsters" by not pulling you in...along with anyone else who you feel so slighted by. You have a right to your political views, I don't care what they are; however, your communication skills leave A LOT to be desired...you make "in your face" and "I'll do to you..." Maxine proud!
Listen up...I'm not a chump to anyone, and I'm certainly not a lunatic! Since you're getting a pass, it's best that you keep your snarky insults to one on one.
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11-13-2018, 01:01 AM
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#173
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 30,398
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by hcap
these Chumpsters will not change no matter what.
the cold reality is one side consists of mostly lunatics.
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Puh-lease! Nothing compared to the endless insults, libs, Dems, progressives and I have gotten. This board is a hotbed of Chumpsters blaming the left for everything very disrespectfully, with substantially worse ugly language.
I am enjoying winning the House and may be guilty of rubbing it in although the delusional fringe right is still in denial.
We will have more fun 1/20
Do you object to "Chumpsters", or "mostly lunatic"?
Neither as aimed at a specific individual, but rather the unhinged "cult of personality" that has destroyed the republican party, but thankfully got checked on Nov 7th.
Get used to much more checking
BTW, latest figures show Dems outdid the 'thugs by 7-8 percentage points counting up all votes for the House Dems.
A clear repudiation of Trumpism
Last edited by hcap; 11-13-2018 at 01:02 AM.
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11-13-2018, 01:13 AM
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#174
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: donkeys ride from ASD
Posts: 13,002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hcap
Puh-lease! Nothing compared to the endless insults, libs, Dems, progressives and I have gotten. This board is a hotbed of Chumpsters blaming the left for everything very disrespectfully, with substantially worse ugly language.
I am enjoying winning the House and may be guilty of rubbing it in although the delusional fringe right is still in denial.
We will have more fun 1/20
Do you object to "Chumpsters", or "mostly lunatic"?
Neither as aimed at a specific individual, but rather the unhinged "cult of personality" that has destroyed the republican party, but thankfully got checked on Nov 7th.
Get used to much more checking
BTW, latest figures show Dems outdid the 'thugs by 7-8 percentage points counting up all votes for the House Dems.
A clear repudiation of Trumpism |
What a dope, what a maroon. 
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11-13-2018, 01:42 AM
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#175
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 30,398
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodtoo
What a dope, what a maroon. |
Gee, and I just said...
Quote:
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Puh-lease! Nothing compared to the endless insults, libs, Dems, progressives and I have gotten.
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I did say my complaints were aimed at the "cult of personality" not any individual. Thanks for illustrating the ongoing "cult" here.
Damn, at least my complaints are more creative and satirical.
You guys resort to dumb insult-by-rote
Last edited by hcap; 11-13-2018 at 01:48 AM.
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11-13-2018, 02:30 AM
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#176
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 30,398
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I was not the only one who thought Chumpy did not want to mess up his hairdo going to the cenetary. Our president....
“People have been agonizing about why didn’t he go. Was it really about the weather? I think the short answer is he didn’t feel like it. He wasn’t in the mood. He didn’t want to get his bouffant hairdo wet,” Peters said."
What a clod!
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11-13-2018, 07:58 AM
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#178
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,800
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MargieRose
Originally Posted by hcap
these Chumpsters will not change no matter what.
the cold reality is one side consists of mostly lunatics.
Name-callinghas been banned here, yet you persist...very much more so than anyone else. In my view, because of bias, you're getting a pass. How "kind" of Gus to extend HIS bias to all the "Chumpsters" by not pulling you in...along with anyone else who you feel so slighted by. You have a right to your political views, I don't care what they are; however, your communication skills leave A LOT to be desired...you make "in your face" and "I'll do to you..." Maxine proud!
Listen up...I'm not a chump to anyone, and I'm certainly not a lunatic! Since you're getting a pass, it's best that you keep your snarky insults to one on one. |
Far left progressives can't help themselves. They always go to personal attacks when they can't win an argument. Great Post. 
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11-13-2018, 08:18 AM
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#179
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: donkeys ride from ASD
Posts: 13,002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hcap
Gee, and I just said...
I did say my complaints were aimed at the "cult of personality" not any individual. Thanks for illustrating the ongoing "cult" here.
Damn, at least my complaints are more creative and satirical.
You guys resort to dumb insult-by-rote |
So your pretty offended being called a "maroon' well I'm sssppeachllleesss.
Considering the language you use daily. 
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11-13-2018, 08:49 AM
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#180
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,472
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Why would anyone care what a draft dodger does on Veterans Day? It's best he stayed away.
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