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Old 01-06-2008, 08:05 PM   #886
classhandicapper
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With all due respect, this thread is a huge waste of time and energy.

The probability of Spitzer, Bruno, Silver, NYRA, or any other similar entity or group fixing racing over time is 0%.

The probability of them destroying economic value of all sorts is 100%.

They may meet some goals while destroying value, but they aren't even smart enough to recognize that and neither arel most horse players.

I don't even have to know any of these guys personally to know that they are all a bunch of self centered corrupt morons that don't even understand basic economics or business. This is all beyond a joke. This is the undoubtedly the dumbest or 2nd dumbest industry on the planet (the people that run pocket billiards may be even dumber). It's hopeless. Make your bets and watch politicians, fools, and corrupt scum sink this game further into the abyss. That's all you can do.

Last edited by classhandicapper : 01-06-2008 at 08:07 PM.
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Old 01-06-2008, 09:05 PM   #887
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Quote:
Originally Posted by classhandicapper
With all due respect, this thread is a huge waste of time and energy.

The probability of Spitzer, Bruno, Silver, NYRA, or any other similar entity or group fixing racing over time is 0%.

The probability of them destroying economic value of all sorts is 100%.

They may meet some goals while destroying value, but they aren't even smart enough to recognize that and neither arel most horse players.

I don't even have to know any of these guys personally to know that they are all a bunch of self centered corrupt morons that don't even understand basic economics or business. This is all beyond a joke. This is the undoubtedly the dumbest or 2nd dumbest industry on the planet (the people that run pocket billiards may be even dumber). It's hopeless. Make your bets and watch politicians, fools, and corrupt scum sink this game further into the abyss. That's all you can do.



C'mon Classhandicapper...don't sugarcoat it. Tell us how you really feel.
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Old 01-06-2008, 10:24 PM   #888
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Quote:
Originally Posted by classhandicapper
With all due respect, this thread is a huge waste of time and energy.

The probability of Spitzer, Bruno, Silver, NYRA, or any other similar entity or group fixing racing over time is 0%.

The probability of them destroying economic value of all sorts is 100%.

They may meet some goals while destroying value, but they aren't even smart enough to recognize that and neither arel most horse players.

I don't even have to know any of these guys personally to know that they are all a bunch of self centered corrupt morons that don't even understand basic economics or business. This is all beyond a joke. This is the undoubtedly the dumbest or 2nd dumbest industry on the planet (the people that run pocket billiards may be even dumber). It's hopeless. Make your bets and watch politicians, fools, and corrupt scum sink this game further into the abyss. That's all you can do.
CH,
Was one of your New Year's resolutions to go off anti-depressants?

With all due respect -- and you have always had mine -- if this thread nelped open any additional eyes to the variety of negative aspects of this franchise renewal process to which you've referred, then I have no regets about any time and energy that I expended. Following this circus has certainly been as entertaining as frustrating.

But I disagree that we have to watch it sink slowly. We can become moth collectors and stop opening our wallets until reason prevails. That's the only answer.
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Old 01-07-2008, 10:21 AM   #889
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Cheer up, CH.

Based on some of your earlier posts, I suspect the following article is more in line with your thinking, although I don’t know your position regarding Silver and Slots:

http://www.newsday.com/news/columni...,7413679.column
New York racetracks mismanaged by state
Raymond J. Keating
Quote:
… The ongoing saga over thoroughbred horse racing serves as a glaring example. It shows that the last people you want operating a business or industry are politicians and their appointees.

… NYRA is a quasi-government, nonprofit entity that has wasted track assets, been plagued by various scandals, received assorted taxpayer bailouts, filed for bankruptcy and done nothing to stem the dramatic decline of racing in New York.

… For good measure, Silver is opposed to slots at Belmont. He says he's worried about the saturation of gambling. Hmmm, so VLTs could be trouble at Belmont Park, but not at other racetracks? And what about gambling through the state lottery, and government-owned and operated Off- Track Betting sites?

Seems a bit inconsistent, don't you think? The potential benefits to racing and Belmont Park from slots are denied due to the peculiarities and inconsistencies of one politician.

Finally, don't forget the recent cries of poverty at New York City OTB. While long a patronage cesspool, city and state politicians are arguing anew over revenue-sharing rules.

Mayor Michael Bloomberg even threatened to close down the city's OTB without a better deal from the state. Yeah, right, like Bloomberg would dump the patronage plums and 1,400 union jobs.

This is what happens when government is in charge. Battles over political turf are waged. Delays and incompetence become the norm. Politicians wrestle over how to get their hands on more dollars to spend, while protecting their buddies. And failure is rewarded.

… What needs to be done is obvious. Privatize OTB, and either sell off or have a private operator run the state's three racetracks. Socialism doesn't work, including in horse racing. Will New York politicians ever get it?
Perhaps Keating didn’t read the following article:


http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?...id=479855&rfi=6
Neighbors bet against OTB plans
By Mike Caputo
Quote:
Residents in North Lawrence and Inwood said they are determined to end up in the winner's circle as they fight a proposal by OTB to relocate in their neighborhood.

Nassau Downs Off-Track Betting President Dino Amoroso did not get a warm welcome at a community meeting held in Inwood's Sons of Italy Hall on Dec. 18. Nearly 50 residents were invited to participate in a question-and-answer session with Amoroso, who is seriously considering a move from the current OTB location, …

… "It is a peaceful neighborhood and they are going to disturb our quality of life there," … , a longtime Inwood community leader who set up the public forum with Amoroso. "Everyone knows what OTB brings into the community and we are just not going to tolerate it."

An expired lease at OTB's current North Lawrence location in the Falcaro Shopping Center has forced Amoroso to look elsewhere. …

... Angry residents frequently interrupted Amoroso's opening presentation, expressing concern about OTB's clientele. While loitering outside the current property, OTB patrons have been seen urinating in public, drinking alcohol and bothering pedestrians, some residents said.

… In a phone interview, Amoroso denied that the OTB at its current location was responsible for an upswing in crime after analyzing police reports on file. According to police, there have been six reported incidents at the OTB within the last two years. A detective said none of the documented incidents were "major" and that the establishment is not viewed as a high-crime area.

… Nassau Downs OTB locations do not serve alcohol and are adequately staffed with security personnel, Amoroso said. … Opponents argued that the OTB attracts an undesirable crowd from outside Inwood and North Lawrence.

… Nassau Downs has yet to strike a lease … Amoroso said he is waiting to receive a letter from the community group, which would document concerns from the neighbors. …
It doesn’t sound as if they’d like slots, either.
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Old 01-07-2008, 08:39 PM   #890
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indulto
CH,
Was one of your New Year's resolutions to go off anti-depressants?

With all due respect -- and you have always had mine -- if this thread nelped open any additional eyes to the variety of negative aspects of this franchise renewal process to which you've referred, then I have no regets about any time and energy that I expended. Following this circus has certainly been as entertaining as frustrating.

But I disagree that we have to watch it sink slowly. We can become moth collectors and stop opening our wallets until reason prevails. That's the only answer.


I take back the "waste of time" part of my comments. I just think it's hopeless. I guess watching some of the presidential debates has reinforced those feelings.
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Old 01-07-2008, 11:31 PM   #891
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Quote:
Originally Posted by classhandicapper

...The probability of Spitzer, Bruno, Silver, NYRA, or any other similar entity or group fixing racing over time is 0%...

...This is all beyond a joke. This is the undoubtedly the dumbest or 2nd dumbest industry on the planet (the people that run pocket billiards may be even dumber). It's hopeless. Make your bets and watch politicians, fools, and corrupt scum sink this game further into the abyss. That's all you can do.


I feel pretty much the same way you do. At least Bruno (who favors privatization) is working to incorporate some oversight measures that will keep NYRA under scrutiny and as a result more in the public eye. I feel reassured that privatization is, ultimately, the correct solution. Here's a link to the poll results that show that better than 65% of NY state residents feel the same way.

http://www.capitalplayny.com/pdf/pr...99-new-york.pdf.

The game in NY will go on, but by NY making the mistake of keeping the same organization, with all of its deficiencies, only helps the competition like Magna and CDSN. Those private enterprises have a vision for the future of the game and have renovated racetracks, and incorporate other gaming alternatives where possible. MTR gaming is one example where the racino model is clearly working.

So I'll continue to place my bets and watch the politicians and NYRA beauracrats play their little games, knowing that, in the end, the industry will continue to thrive and be transformed by profiteering visionaries in jurisdications that are possessed of common sense and the foresight to understand that change is a necessary and good thing.
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Old 01-08-2008, 07:29 AM   #892
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http://www.newsday.com/news/opinion...0,3859716.story
Editorial: Belmont should get share of video lottery terminal monies
Quote:
… The speaker is adamantly opposed to these high-tech slot machines at Belmont, even though it's clearly the better location for an entertainment destination and could bring more than $1 million a day to the state. His city delegation wants Aqueduct to be the sole local VLT venue, because that's the only way the aging Queens track survives the developers.

Apparently, Gov. Eliot Spitzer and Senate Majority Leader Joseph Bruno (R-Brunswick) will let Silver have his way for now. They've offered the dubious promise that Belmont VLTs will be revisited during budget negotiations, when there are more opportunities to deal - a risky and disappointing strategy, because Silver may never put Belmont in play.

Meanwhile, state leaders need to deliver a partial winning ticket to the Belmont community before any racing deal is reached this month. Belmont should at least get the same amount of host community money as Aqueduct does, and those funds should flow from the very first day the machines start whirling in Queens. And none of Belmont's money should cross the Nassau line, despite the few parking spaces and exit ramp that lie within Silver's city limits.
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Old 01-08-2008, 09:33 AM   #893
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYPlayer
The game in NY will go on, but by NY making the mistake of keeping the same organization, with all of its deficiencies, only helps the competition like Magna and CDSN. Those private enterprises have a vision for the future of the game and have renovated racetracks, and incorporate other gaming alternatives where possible. MTR gaming is one example where the racino model is clearly working.

Remarkable...

Bruno is in favor of 'privatization'? Really? When did he say that? He's in favor of getting a grip on franchise revenues to pay back the people who have been schmeering him and his dolt son for the past three years. NOTHING ELSE. Enough already with trying to legitimize his senility-addled machinations.

And which 'vision' that CDI and Magna has forwarded are you championing? The ruination of Gulfstream Park? The unfulfilled promises at nearly every Magna venue? The squandering of tens of millions of dollars that has MEI devalued to the point where it can no longer borrow a dime and is desperate to sell off as much property as it can?

Maybe it's CDI's renovated Churchill you're impressed with... Ask the KY horsemen how they feel about CDI's "vision". They spent $140MM to renovate CD for the 2 days people actually go there, and are paying for it by sticking it to the backstretch. How's their 'vision' working out at Calder? And their 'vision' having sold off Hollywood guaranteeing it gets bulldozed by 2010?

MTR is an example where racino is working? That's laughable. No one at MTR even knows there are horses running. The horsemen complain endlessly about how the track is maintained as the Gaming Execs do everything they can do to minimize the racing aspect there despite raking in junketeer nickels and dimes. (If you're going to use an example of success, at least use Remington, New Mexico and Pennsylvania.)

As usual, no realities actually apply when it comes to NYRA bashing.

Last edited by DerbyTrail : 01-08-2008 at 09:36 AM.
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Old 01-08-2008, 11:13 AM   #894
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Excellent post Derby Trail. Couldn't have said it better myself.
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Old 01-08-2008, 12:30 PM   #895
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Not that I would wish this on anyone, even someone as much as I dislike as him, but this is probably going to put all business in Albany on hold for a couple days at least

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/pol...has_died-1.html
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Old 01-08-2008, 01:15 PM   #896
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Originally Posted by OTM Al
Not that I would wish this on anyone, even someone as much as I dislike as him, but this is probably going to put all business in Albany on hold for a couple days at least

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/pol...has_died-1.html
From the article:
Quote:
… Barbara Bruno, the wife of Senate GOP leader Joe Bruno, died Monday at the couple's home in Rensselaer County after a long battle with Alzheimer's disease. She was 77.

… Mayor Bloomberg said in a statement last night: "I have enormous admiration for the constant dedication that Joe showed to Barbara, which speaks volumes about his character."
Few who have not actually experienced the not unusual agony and futility of caring for a loved one afflicted with this disease can appreciate its sometimes wrenching effects on the families involved.


One doesn’t have to agree with Mr. Bruno’s positions or approve of his actions to feel great sympathy for him. To say that one’s judgment can be clouded under such circumstances is an understatement.
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Old 01-08-2008, 01:55 PM   #897
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http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=43035
New York Jockeys Call for Solutions
by Blood-Horse Staff
Quote:
… “This is the perfect time to initiate change,” said jockey John Velazquez, who is also the chairman of the board of directors of the Jockeys’ Guild. … We need to come up with a plan that better incorporates the OTB systems and maximizes VLT revenues to make New York racing the world leader and provides a long-term solution for the industry. New York is all about being the best. It’s practically the state motto. Racing fans in New York deserve no less. We have that opportunity right now.

“Purses and awards need to be increased," Velazquez continued. "Horsemen and breeders require a fair share of the VLT revenues. Facilities must to be improved and safety issues need to be addressed.”

… “Safety should be beyond discussion,” said Velazquez. “But the horsemen, breeders and jockeys need to have input into the decision-making process at the track and become partners with the franchise holder in presenting the best possible product to the fans. …
Add horseplaying customers to that mix.
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Old 01-08-2008, 04:08 PM   #898
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http://www.newsday.com/news/local/n...0,4829051.story
VLTs no gamble, Jacobs says
Nassau legislator wants NY Assembly's Sheldon Silver to think twice about opposition to Belmont machines
BY BART JONES
Quote:
… Silver last week used his strongest language yet to state his opposition to VLTs at the track, prompting Jacobs - a fellow Democrat - to send him a letter.

"Nassau County would benefit greatly from this major source of employment, revenue and entertainment, not only in the immediate surrounding area, but for the entire county," Jacobs said.


… "It makes no sense that I can see to single out Belmont and not install VLTs," she said. "Instead of reinvigorating a shrinking economy, expanding a tax base, and providing funds for the local school system, we are watching our communities being passed over."

VLTs are potential pots of gold. The 4,500 proposed for Aqueduct are expected to produce up to $500 million a year in revenue. Most of that money is earmarked for education.

Jacobs joined other Nassau politicians including County Executive Thomas Suozzi, state Sen. Craig Johnson (D-Port Washington) and state Sen. Dean Skelos (R-Rockville Centre) who support VLTs at Belmont. So do Gov. Eliot Spitzer and state Senate Majority Leader Joseph Bruno, who are at odds with one another on most issues.

… With NYRA granted an extension to continue operating the tracks until Jan. 23, officials continued negotiating last weekend and yesterday.
Wouldn’t Nassau County local schools benefit from the revenue already earmarked for education?
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Old 01-08-2008, 04:28 PM   #899
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Originally Posted by Indulto
Add horseplaying customers to that mix.



Well, I suppose you could say that this just about sums up their selfishness and lack of awareness, but there is so much that is preposterous about this and the entire position of the jockeys that this is only a sliver sliding off their iceberg of ineptitude.

As an aside, I wonder what role the man they recently selected to head their guild holds in the recent problems at NYRA.
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Old 01-08-2008, 04:36 PM   #900
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Too much tax

Nassau homeowners already pay 10K-30K in property taxes for a average home. If they can not edcuate the little horseplayers on that budget they have some serious budgeting/overspening issues out there. In all honestly I would rather not have slots at Belmont.
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