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Old 01-31-2006, 04:10 PM   #1
Si2see
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New Charlestown owner needs help !!

Hey everyone I want to own a horse or two at charlestown within the next couple of months. A few friends that I know and trust want to join in with me in owning and trust my knowledge and abilities to act as a managing partner or whatever I might be. I was wondering if any experienced owner or trainer would help me understand the starting out process a little.

I understand horse racing, understand you have to be a king to make money at charlestown. I understand the good and the bad about charlestown. There are many reasons why I am choosing there for right now. One reason is a select few trainers will do the purse split deal and not charge monthly. Regardless of how much I may make or not make like that, that is how it needs to be because we are three guys in it trying to have fun a make some money on our investment if all works out. I was wondering if anyone has contact information on any of these type trainers ( Tony Carone or whoever else may be interested )


Second, What I don't know is how to get started and wanted a little bit of help before I head to charlestown to try and set things up. If anyone with owning or training experience would like to help post here or pm me I would appreciate it.
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Old 01-31-2006, 04:48 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Si2see
There are many reasons why I am choosing there for right now. One reason is a select few trainers will do the purse split deal and not charge monthly. Regardless of how much I may make or not make like that, that is how it needs to be because we are three guys in it trying to have fun a make some money on our investment if all works out. I was wondering if anyone has contact information on any of these type trainers ( Tony Carone or whoever else may be interested )
What is "the purse split deal"? 50-50?

What happens if your horses are not being productive? Are they (and you) out on their ear? Or perhaps some skimping on the care, attention and feed they receive?

Please don't take this personally and no offense intended, but if the three of you combined can't afford to pay a trainer a day rate I wonder if you're jumping the gun on getting involved with owning horses.
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Old 01-31-2006, 05:34 PM   #3
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Split purses is exactly what I was referring to. And it isn't not affording the day rate, thats just not the route we want to go. Most people that use someting like that win 2 races and realize the trainer is getting a bunch of the purse and go to someone who charges a day rate. Or maybe the horse or trainer doesnt produce then we will be on the downside just like anyone in the business can be at anytime. This is just the best way for us to do it right now. Maybe later I will get one of the best trainers and pay a huge day rate, but not now this isn't just about me but about 3 people who just want to have fun doing it but like most people in the industry we want to win as much as possible.

As far as the condition the horse is kept, this is why I want and ask for advice from the charlestown insiders. Who to talk to, who not to talk to etc etc. I love horses and would never want my horses mistreated, but anyone could not show the horse the attention and care that they need again thats why I ask for help from the people who know. Jason

Last edited by Si2see; 01-31-2006 at 05:37 PM.
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Old 01-31-2006, 05:40 PM   #4
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Also I would really love JOTB to give me his insight on the best people to talk to and the way to go about it as he knows almost everyone at charlestown from what I have been reading.
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Old 01-31-2006, 06:00 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Si2see
Hey everyone I want to own a horse or two at charlestown within the next couple of months. A few friends that I know and trust want to join in with me in owning and trust my knowledge and abilities to act as a managing partner or whatever I might be. I was wondering if any experienced owner or trainer would help me understand the starting out process a little.

I understand horse racing, understand you have to be a king to make money at charlestown. I understand the good and the bad about charlestown. There are many reasons why I am choosing there for right now. One reason is a select few trainers will do the purse split deal and not charge monthly. Regardless of how much I may make or not make like that, that is how it needs to be because we are three guys in it trying to have fun a make some money on our investment if all works out. I was wondering if anyone has contact information on any of these type trainers ( Tony Carone or whoever else may be interested )


Second, What I don't know is how to get started and wanted a little bit of help before I head to charlestown to try and set things up. If anyone with owning or training experience would like to help post here or pm me I would appreciate it.

Hello SI2SEE:

How much money are you looking to invest?

Joe
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Old 01-31-2006, 06:08 PM   #6
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check your pm's
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Old 01-31-2006, 07:12 PM   #7
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http://www.toba.org/state/wvindex.html

In addition to anything else, I would contact the West Virginia Thoroughbred Owners and Breeders Association. You may join them anyway.
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Old 02-01-2006, 09:19 AM   #8
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It would seem to me that a trainer who gets paid via a purse split deal would not think twice about running an unsound horse. The trainer would have nothing to lose in this scenario; and if the horse were to become injured, that trainer could simply eject your horse from his stable.

If I were you, I'd stick to day rate trainers. Trainers who train for cuts of purses usually aren't worth their weight. Remember these six words, it's the truest statement ever made:

You get what you pay for.
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Old 02-01-2006, 10:23 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zman179
It would seem to me that a trainer who gets paid via a purse split deal would not think twice about running an unsound horse. The trainer would have nothing to lose in this scenario; and if the horse were to become injured, that trainer could simply eject your horse from his stable.

If I were you, I'd stick to day rate trainers. Trainers who train for cuts of purses usually aren't worth their weight. Remember these six words, it's the truest statement ever made:

You get what you pay for.
Amen, Zman.

Another point I thought of after I posted my concerns to this thread yesterday relates to the decision process on where to race the horse next - reading condition books, etc.

Even when you're paying them a day rate, most trainers are not overly enthusiastic about major owner input into this process. But they put up with it, as most owners find this to be one of the more enjoyable aspects of the game.

A trainer who's charging you zero for room and board would be very likely to tell you to take your input and put it where the sun don't shine - he's paying the bills.
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Old 02-01-2006, 11:12 AM   #10
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Zman you make a good point about the trainer just wanting to stick you with the horse once or if it can't produce anymore. That would be something to address but my input would be put the horse where it can win If it doesnt win at the price we take it at then drop it down in class.

Also about the condition book, if the trainer wants me to pick the races then so be it, if he wants to then that works but I assure you I wont jump to the only trainer who wants to jump on this way of doing it. If isn't who I feel is the right individual then we will just wait until that person comes along. Thanks for everyones input
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Old 02-01-2006, 12:29 PM   #11
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Most of the trainers I know who operate on "deals" are the bottom-feeders...you'd be best to steer clear of them. Why not check the trainer standings at Chuck Town and see who the top guys are? Before you invest, ask about some of these trainers. You can go broke in a hurry so it pays to take your time and don't be so gung-ho on "deals."
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Old 02-01-2006, 01:49 PM   #12
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Doc thanks for your input. I try to at least watch every chuck town race of every night if I have the chance and if I don't I definetly read the results every morning of what happened to each horse the night before. Don't let me fool you when I say this is the way it has to be.... I have to have a trainer that will do this right now or else this will never go past this thread. But I can promise you I will not jump in with anybody who is willing to take me in as a new owner it will not be an overnight process I will do the research and whatever else it takes before I even think about dropping a claim.

Top trainers there may or may not be interested in this, however I know of some of them who have or are working with a group of people or even partnerships who work the purse structure out like this. I just basically need help getting in touch with these people. Thanks again
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Old 04-18-2006, 08:20 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Si2see
Zman you make a good point about the trainer just wanting to stick you with the horse once or if it can't produce anymore. That would be something to address but my input would be put the horse where it can win If it doesnt win at the price we take it at then drop it down in class.

Also about the condition book, if the trainer wants me to pick the races then so be it, if he wants to then that works but I assure you I wont jump to the only trainer who wants to jump on this way of doing it. If isn't who I feel is the right individual then we will just wait until that person comes along. Thanks for everyones input
All of you make very good assertions of a trainer trying to train horses on deals. Yes there are guys who will "screw" you and yes there are uys who dont look after your horse.Many People train horses for 1 reason and thats to see how much he can get out of the owner and horse. Those guys are here to get you and then are gone.You need a honest trainer who will tell you like it is!! You need a trainer that ISNT a gambler and you need a trainer who cares for the horse.I myself have set up a partnership where each partner gets a split of the monthly cost of the horse, NOT the day rate.That way they see what there horse is getting and eases the burden of paying a day rate and is 10 times cheaper,Also have a continuacy plan for a horse that needs time on the farm.In this day and age Day rate owners are becoming few unless your very wealthy.You must remember a happy horse is a race horse..
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Old 04-18-2006, 09:53 PM   #14
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You must find a guy you can trust.

Select a Trainer. A guy with a decent Rep. He'll hold your hand.

Its fairly simple.....

One unsolicited piece of advice I'll give you. Do not select your own claims at first. Unless you intimately know the stock on the grounds I would follow your Trainers advice. They are out there every day. They see them exercising, they here Jockeys talk up, or talk down a horse. They're on the pulse. Claiming low-level to mid-level Thoroughbreds off Past Performances is not a good idea.

Is JOTB at C-town? He'll guide you along. I had him up to Saratoga three years ago. A nice guy who's been grinding it out in the trench's long enough to help you avoid the Land Mines.

G'luck.
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Old 04-18-2006, 10:54 PM   #15
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Since I've never owned or trained maybe my three cents isn't worth reading, but from a basic economics standpoint, it seems to me like a trainer working with a new client with claiming stock who only gets paid when the horse gets in the money has a real strong vested interest in running the horse where it can win.

This implies that your asset will quite often be in a situation where it may well be claimed at a level below it's worth and/or below what you paid for it. After all, if he believes that the only way he can get paid is to place it in a claiming race that's half of what you just paid for it, well how long do you think he'll be willing to race it above a level it can win easily and thus be likely claim bait.

It's sort of like the incongruent interests of a full service stockbroker and his client. He gets paid on transactions, not on the client making money.

Sounds like trouble in the making to me, but what do I know.
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