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Old 03-08-2018, 02:03 AM   #16
Pensacola Pete
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It has zero chance of winning in Illinois.
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Old 03-08-2018, 08:55 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by onefast99 View Post
Once the race is deemed final the payouts at the track are final as well. In the event a horse is then dq'd for testing positive it in no way affects the pari-mutuel system. On the other hand should those who had the winner give back their winnings?
No, of course not.
BUT, the owner of the drugged horse should be fined the amount of the total pools affected by his or her failing to control a horse they entered in violation of the rules.

Bet no one ever gets fined more than once!
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Old 03-08-2018, 08:57 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by luisbe View Post
The "milk shaker" might have bet on the horse and pocketed more money than just 10% of the purse, and...if he/she is not the owner.
Who is responsible to preventing their horse from being "shaked?"

Ultimate responsibility goes to the owner.
You don't get to outsource responsibility.
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Old 03-08-2018, 09:40 AM   #19
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No, of course not.
BUT, the owner of the drugged horse should be fined the amount of the total pools affected by his or her failing to control a horse they entered in violation of the rules.

Bet no one ever gets fined more than once!
Legally it would never happen, but that's actually a tremendous idea.
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Old 03-09-2018, 10:02 AM   #20
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This is the point as to why nothing will be affected. If you're on the flip side & won a lot of money with a horse who happened to be on the juice, I don't think there will be a line of people looking to return their ill-gotten gains. Without those winnings returned, if you sued a trainer for all the "winning" bets which weren't when there's a positive test, that'd pretty much bankrupt any individual involved.
Are you referring to the horse Navarro and his owner bet on in the video last summer at GP?
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Old 03-09-2018, 10:04 AM   #21
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Legally it would never happen, but that's actually a tremendous idea.
Exactly what the game needs now more litigation....also none of those bets ever can be construed as a life changing event for those betting. Of course the guy who was on his way to hitting the Rainbow six last month probably looked at suing someone, anyone....
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Old 03-09-2018, 10:06 AM   #22
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Who is responsible to preventing their horse from being "shaked?"

Ultimate responsibility goes to the owner.
You don't get to outsource responsibility.
How many people who owned stock in Exxon were responsible for that oil spill on the Valdez? None. Blaming the owner who in at least 99% of these infractions is just passing the blame onto someone who can afford to pay the fines associated with the infraction.
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Old 03-09-2018, 10:12 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by onefast99 View Post
Exactly what the game needs now more litigation....also none of those bets ever can be construed as a life changing event for those betting. Of course the guy who was on his way to hitting the Rainbow six last month probably looked at suing someone, anyone....
Is there some backlog of litigation I don't know about?
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Old 03-09-2018, 11:23 AM   #24
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These suits never get resolved in the bettors receiving their winning bet. I have seen suits like this go back about 30 years. It is a rigged game against the bettor. The owners on the other hand will be handed a purse. Just the way the game is played. If you held tracks responsible for these errors and made them make restitution to bettors,the game probably would be in bettor shape. Just my opinion.
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Old 03-09-2018, 12:32 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by onefast99 View Post
Once the race is deemed final the payouts at the track are final as well. In the event a horse is then dq'd for testing positive it in no way affects the pari-mutuel system. On the other hand should those who had the winner give back their winnings?
Exactly, it's the same case in sports betting at a Vegas book, right or wrong, good or bad. People can theoretically cash there that night thus making a later decision impossible to handle for the book. Same thing here with the parimutuel system as onefast states.

As far as wagering goes, it's part of the game. Like home cooking and bad ref calls in any other sport. Buyer beware type thing.
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Old 03-09-2018, 04:01 PM   #26
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Is there some backlog of litigation I don't know about?
I'm sure there are thousands against racing commissions, track management and anyone else associated with decisions that could have been wrongly made. You should know this you are a big part of the game....and a good part, so don't sue me. Sue Tom....
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Old 03-09-2018, 08:02 PM   #27
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Why should a race track/owner/trainer be above the legal system? Making a bet in good faith and then having it taken away by specific illegal actions by a third party seems idea fodder for a damn nice lawsuit. Maye leading to a class action suit by all the people who were screwed by a low life cheater.
My legal analysis is that this is a loser.

My gambling analysis is that this should be a loser-- you need to have a point in time when people can throw away their tickets. "OFFICIAL" does that.

My ethical analysis is that I would love if PETA wins this. It would effectively be the equivalent of a trainer responsibility rule for racetracks. You let doped horses run at your track, you pay out the wagers.
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Old 03-10-2018, 06:50 AM   #28
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Obviously, this guy has no chance of winning this, but the bigger problem is that the racing industry, harness and thoroughbred, and law enforcement, are too easy on the dopers. When a doped horse wins a race, the race was a fixed race. Attempting to alter a sporting contest is a felony and the guilty parties should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. They should go to jail.
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Old 03-10-2018, 11:04 AM   #29
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Obviously, this guy has no chance of winning this, but the bigger problem is that the racing industry, harness and thoroughbred, and law enforcement, are too easy on the dopers. When a doped horse wins a race, the race was a fixed race. Attempting to alter a sporting contest is a felony and the guilty parties should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. They should go to jail.
Those involved are fined and suspended, that in itself isn't a real big deterrent to the ones who continue to cheat and get away with it. Look at the recent rulings against Murray Rojas 14 convictions and she isn't going to jail despite all the evidence against her and the vets.
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Old 03-10-2018, 12:25 PM   #30
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This is the point as to why nothing will be affected. If you're on the flip side & won a lot of money with a horse who happened to be on the juice, I don't think there will be a line of people looking to return their ill-gotten gains. Without those winnings returned, if you sued a trainer for all the "winning" bets which weren't when there's a positive test, that'd pretty much bankrupt any individual involved.
People who bet on undeserving winners did nothing wrong. Bankrupt cheating trainers and owners? Yes, please!

Apparently, this was a test that the track ordered and conducted by a lab in Hong Kong, and is being challenged for that reason. This may not be the best test case, though they still have my full support. This link has that additional information.

http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireSto...oping-53582614
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