Betting with an Edge --- Mike Maloney

[JustRalph]

No kindle version?

$48 bucks on Amazon........? Hardcover only?

Now I know what his edge is.....

[thaskalos]

Pandy's book-review dissuaded me from buying this book. I am not looking for "amusing racetrack stories". I have accumulated plenty of those on my own.

[pandy]

Originally Posted by pandy

This thread really got off topic, so I'll get it back on track. I just finished reading Betting With An Edge by professional horseplayer Mike Maloney. I liked it a lot. If you like racetrack stories, Mike has been doing this a long time and has some great stories in this book. I really enjoyed that part of it. As for the handicapping information, in a way it's fundamental, albeit thorough, handicappiing, but I liked it. Most people play the horses for entertainment and don't actually do a lot of work. Maloney does a lot of work, it's a full time job and then some. I have a friend who's a professional harness bettor and his approach is very similar to Maloney's, he does his own speed figures for at least a couple of circuits, he keeps strict records on track bias, etc.

One thing that I'll tell you is that even though Maloney uses Speed Figures, he doesn't trust one number, not even his own. I found that interesting because I believe that it's better to use more than one set of figures if you are serious about handicapping and betting. For instance, Maloney will compare the Beyer figures against Timeform's. If they don't agree, that's a red flag, and then he can't be that confident about the horse's ability.

If you want to read a book that's all about handicappping you might be disappointed, but if you like racetrack stories, you may love this book. I thoroughly enjoyed it. As for the handicapping part of it, there are certain parts of this book, where Maloney writes about how he bets the horses, that I truly think will help me, even though I've been doing this for a long time. I don't want to say too much because it's not fair to give out his secrets, you have to read the book. But I loved how he shows how he implements his Lock It Up and Kill Bet strategies. I'm going to use both from now one. Other parts of the book will also help me and I'll be using my copy as a reference when I'm placing my bets.

I'm pretty much the only one who has come out with handicapping books the last few years. I like reading about handicapping and horse racing and I was anxious to read this book by this renowned professional bettor. it didn't disappoint.

Another thing about Maloney's book, it's interesting to see how a professional gambler thinks. It's different because he's more attuned to the various parimutuel pools. You get to see how he manages his bankroll and figures out how to bet each key horse that he likes.

[Tom]

Ordered it today.
Ralph, only $32 at DRF.

[jahura2]

Originally Posted by cj

https://shop.drf.com/thoroughbred-wagering

Mike talks about it here:

http://www.drf.com/blogs/drf-players...vember-14-2017

I've read some of this already. I think even Gus will like it!

Thanks for posting this CJ. I have known Mike for over 40 years and can guarantee this will be a good read. Spent many college road trips on I-75 heading to Latonia to bet the races with him and his dad in the early 70's. I have learned so many useful things from Mike but he left me far behind in knowledge and handicapping/betting years ago. One of the truly "good" guys I have met in this game over the years. Regardless of how many racing stories anyone has heard its always great to hear more. Havent read it yet but definitely looking forward to it.

[cj]

Originally Posted by jahura2

Thanks for posting this CJ. I have known Mike for over 40 years and can guarantee this will be a good read. Spent many college road trips on I-75 heading to Latonia to bet the races with him and his dad in the early 70's. I have learned so many useful things from Mike but he left me far behind in knowledge and handicapping/betting years ago. One of the truly "good" guys I have met in this game over the years. Regardless of how many racing stories anyone has heard its always great to hear more. Havent read it yet but definitely looking forward to it.

That is really cool to hear, thanks for sharing.

[cj]

Enjoying it so far, have been busy and took a few days away, back soon.

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by pandy

Obviously, Maloney makes some really big bets. In his book he pointed out that if, for instance, the Beyer speed figure is much different than the Timeform speed figure on a particular horse, that raises a red flag. If you think about it, say you are a big chalk bettor who likes to bet $500 to win. You see a horse that ran a 95 Beyer in his second career start, and the horse looks at least two lengths better than anything in the field. The horse is 7-5 today. Now you check Timeform and see that the horse was given an 85 for its last race and two other horses in the race are ranked ahead of it. Are you still going to bet the $500? Is the horse the fastest in the race or not?

I went down the road of looking at two or more sets of figures a very long time ago. At one time I had Beyer figures, CJ figures, Logic Dictate figures, reviewed major stakes days on my own, and occasionally had Thoroghgraph or Ragozin figures. I also spent the time required to understand the methodology differences that accounted for some of he differences.

There are some obvious upsides when figures agree. The problem is that when all the major figure makers agree, the prices reflect that. So I quickly switched to trying to figure out which figure maker had it right or wrong when they disagreed. I started looking closely at the field, the day in question, how horses were coming out of the race, was there a potential methodology flaw at work etc..

That helps sometimes, but most of the time it's really tough to be sure who has it right even after the fact. After years of practice, I found that looking at multiple figures can be just as paralyzing and time consuming as it was helpful.

I would say that now I just accept that whatever set I am looking at will have some errors. I'm more concerned with their overall performance and ROI hoping to at least be in more fertile grounds than an alternative.

[CincyHorseplayer]

I just started reading it and am enjoying it. I like the stories about the history and evolution of an author in this game. Will check back in!

[Tom]

My copy came yesterday - reading now and it is a really good book.
I like the perspective of a guy I might be leaning on the rail alongside talking.

Especially liked the chapter on the past-posting and the typical reply from those supposedly running the game - you know, the lying morons.

And nice to see CJ getting some props - having watched him grow from a guy in the stands to an industry voice right here on PA!

[aaron]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

I went down the road of looking at two or more sets of figures a very long time ago. At one time I had Beyer figures, CJ figures, Logic Dictate figures, reviewed major stakes days on my own, and occasionally had Thoroghgraph or Ragozin figures. I also spent the time required to understand the methodology differences that accounted for some of he differences.

There are some obvious upsides when figures agree. The problem is that when all the major figure makers agree, the prices reflect that. So I quickly switched to trying to figure out which figure maker had it right or wrong when they disagreed. I started looking closely at the field, the day in question, how horses were coming out of the race, was there a potential methodology flaw at work etc..

That helps sometimes, but most of the time it's really tough to be sure who has it right even after the fact. After years of practice, I found that looking at multiple figures can be just as paralyzing and time consuming as it was helpful.

I would say that now I just accept that whatever set I am looking at will have some errors. I'm more concerned with their overall performance and ROI hoping to at least be in more fertile grounds than an alternative.

I have looked at many different figures over time. I think the most important thing when looking at figures is to have confidence in the figures you are using.
Then analyze, if it was a bias or a trip enhanced figure and go from there. If you believe the figure,then analyze the race and you are getting a fair price, then you have a bet.Generally,IMO,I think you are better off with figures that are not publicly published, because less players have access to them. In many cases due to circumstances, the figure makers are just making an educated guess as to what the figure should be. I have seen many figure makers change their numbers after subsequent races have been run. The most important thing to remember about figures is that they are just another tool for you to work with.

[cj]

I like his track bias stuff. I'm really liking the money management. There is a section about people with gambling problems that I think is very good. We'll all known someone like that or been there ourselves. More to come...

[cj]

Disclaimer: I work for the publisher and I'm mentioned positively a few times in the book. I didn't know that to be the case when I bought the book. And yes, I did buy it.

Overall I think this book is great. I'm not as big on the stories as some probably will be because as horseplayers we all have them, but I'm sure many will enjoy them.

That said, what more could a horseplayer ask for than a real winning player telling you exactly how he does things? He covers so many things and he also talks about stuff nobody else has in any horse racing books I've ever read, and that number is over 100 I'm sure. I picked up several things I plan on using from the book. It is well worth the price in my opinion.

[GMB@BP]

I finally finished the book....what can I say, I am busy.

One thing to note, I would consider myself an expert at handicapping, as close to being professional level, without being professional. I am sure some would not agree but I have been doing this a long time and have been around some of the best handicappers in this country. So my views are from that perspective.

I do love reading handicapping books, the subject itself is entertaining enough that just about any book I will enjoy. If you like handicapping you will enjoy this book, I have no doubts.

Mike is great, and having listened to him many times over the years, he relates handicapping and his time at the track very well. His stories are great and provide the book more enjoyment than just a pure numbers and data analysis type of handicapping book.

That is a strength of the book, that it ties real track experience and handicapping. Telling it with actual stories provides context that we can often relate to, in our own handicapping story world.

The books strengths are the sections on Bias, Trip Handicapping, Performance Figures, and activism chapter at the end. I would like to see a more expanded Performance Figure discussion, it’s a concept I played around with but have never implemented in any real fashion. I feel with Timeform figures adjusted for pace, adjusting them further in his Performance Figure concepts would provide the best possible data point to use.

The one thing I think is tough, and while he mentions its not easy, the Bias and Trip work, at the level he is talking about is not possible for the non-professional player. I am a working professional with 2 kids. I tried doing trip/bias work for Saratoga this summer, then SA and Del Mar in the fall. Its just too tough. Not enough hours in a week. I think the only way one gets this done is to team up with 2-3 people and share data, or purchase it.

I was taken back though that while Mike bets through Keeneland, he is open about the fact he gets a rebate, but what I didn’t know was that Kee provided the rebate. So when he bets on Keeneland and say gets a 5% rebate he effectively is given a different takeout rate by Kee, that doesn’t not sit well with me. This is not an ADW playing with their own margins, this is the track that sets the takeout rates. Maybe I am splitting hairs but just doesn’t feel right.

The past posting is beyond disgusting, but not a surprise.

Anyways, good book, worth the read.

[baconswitchfarm]

Originally Posted by linrom1

I listened to the interview---there was nothing in there that would benefit handicappers except I found it a bit distressing that he said that Keenland and Red Mile give him office space.

Does he pay for this, or is it a perk given to large bettors; of course, at mine expense and many other small bettors?

I am in the office next door to Mike. There are five professional guys total. Luckily , there is one office still open. They would like you to bet at least 300k a month for free programs and the office space. Outside that, there are really no extra perks. Come on down.