Why Learn Basic Programming Skills?

[Actor]

Regarding the BASIC program posted by highnote in #184, this line of code appears immediately before line 380

NH$(N) = NH$

NH$ is the Name of the Horse and it's an array of strings. So what gives with NH$ without a subscript? Is there some default element of the array?

[traynor]

You know you have status when you are part of the ingroup vernacular--especially when that is in reference to "easy to learn, easy to use":

"But frameworks like Facebook’s Wit.ai and Howdy’s Slack bot are competing to become the Visual Basic of AI, promising point-and-click development of intelligent conversational interfaces to relatively unsophisticated developers."
https://www.oreilly.com/ideas/7-ai-t...wsltr_20170121


Yayyy for those "relatively unsophisticated developers." Never mind the philosophy and all the other nonsense--get that app working and picking winners!

[traynor]

And for those still on the fence, trying to decide which language (if any) to start with--the hands-down winner (for just about anything you will ever want to do related to programming and horse races) is ... Visual Basic.

If you don't agree, watch Derek Banas' new tutorial series on VB 2017. THEN decide. Invest a few minutes of your spare time and see how easy learning a REAL programming language can be.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FkWddODLno

[Actor]

Originally Posted by traynor

And for those still on the fence, trying to decide which language (if any) to start with--the hands-down winner (for just about anything you will ever want to do related to programming and horse races) is ... Visual Basic.

If you don't agree, watch Derek Banas' new tutorial series on VB 2017. THEN decide. Invest a few minutes of your spare time and see how easy learning a REAL programming language can be.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FkWddODLno

If you want a "visual" language I recommend Delphi.

[traynor]

Originally Posted by Actor

If you want a "visual" language I recommend Delphi.

As I have mentioned elsewhere, one of the most profitable (as well as interesting and educational) required that I learn Delphi on the fly, to fix someone else's (very complex programming/development) mess. I like it. However, I wouldn't necessarily recommend that anyone else learn it, unless they have some specific reason for doing so.

[traynor]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiPzRIGnzXo

And on the topic of "should I or shouldn't I ... and why?" is a neat collection of two minute or so "talking points" that (briefly) explain the typical reasons given to learn (or to avoid like the plague) this language or that language.

After watching one or two, if you look at the titles, you will see that the same format is posted (by the same poster(s)) arguing for and against almost every language you might consider--complete with brief explanations of the various weak points and strong points.

Great fun for those who like to follow the "reasoning" (or lack thereof) in debates, political or otherwise. Not so much for those easily swayed by "talkihg points." Fortunately, I am in the former group.

I recommend watching any of them that mentions a language you are considering (or have considered) learning. The takeaway is that your (best) choice all depends on what seems appealing to you, because there are good points and bad points about just about everything that can be used to tweak your opinion. Especially that highly-touted "snake in the grass" --Python.

[DeltaLover]

Originally Posted by traynor

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiPzRIGnzXo

Intermediate level programmers, (who hide behind this video) seem to not really understand where the real power of python lies, something that is clearly reflected on their criticism about it.

As I have said before, python is not a simple language and definitely is not easy to master. Besides what is commonly believed, python learning curve is steep. Yes, it is truth that a novice can quickly start writing simple scripts to solve trivial problems but his solutions suffer from scalability, readability and very quickly he reaches a plateau that cannot be penetrated unless he studies programming in the proper and time consuming way.

The ability to express even a simple solution in code is by no means a trivial task. Even an algorithm that appears as simple as a mere binary search can be so tricky to perfect that it took sixteen years (!) for a bug free algorithm to appear in the related literature; many years later java was still shipping with a bug in its implementation of binary search that was only fixed in 2006!

Before been in the position to express some valid opinions and compare languages among themselves, the programmer needs to master many things, including OOP, functional programming, meta-programming and also have a good grasp of a lower level language like C or even assembly.

As in any other craft, python, java, C# or C++ are just the tools that are as good as their users. Frankly, I do not believe that there exist any quick and simple teaching methodology to substitute lengthy experience, painful study and dedication as the means to become a programmer.

https://www.quora.com/There-was-a-bu...at-was-the-bug

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5...-binary-search

[traynor]

Some good source recommendations for learning materials.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hFQ9JReBcs

[traynor]

Originally Posted by DeltaLover

Intermediate level programmers, (who hide behind this video) seem to not really understand where the real power of python lies, something that is clearly reflected on their criticism about it.

As I have said before, python is not a simple language and definitely is not easy to master. Besides what is commonly believed, python learning curve is steep. Yes, it is truth that a novice can quickly start writing simple scripts to solve trivial problems but his solutions suffer from scalability, readability and very quickly he reaches a plateau that cannot be penetrated unless he studies programming in the proper and time consuming way.

The ability to express even a simple solution in code is by no means a trivial task. Even an algorithm that appears as simple as a mere binary search can be so tricky to perfect that it took sixteen years (!) for a bug free algorithm to appear in the related literature; many years later java was still shipping with a bug in its implementation of binary search that was only fixed in 2006!

Before been in the position to express some valid opinions and compare languages among themselves, the programmer needs to master many things, including OOP, functional programming, meta-programming and also have a good grasp of a lower level language like C or even assembly.

As in any other craft, python, java, C# or C++ are just the tools that are as good as their users. Frankly, I do not believe that there exist any quick and simple teaching methodology to substitute lengthy experience, painful study and dedication as the means to become a programmer.

https://www.quora.com/There-was-a-bu...at-was-the-bug

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5...-binary-search

I think there is a fundamental dichotomy in intent. I am suggesting that a person interested in horse race handicapping can learn basic programming fairly quickly, and open a whole new world of possibilities in race analysis, handicapping, and even record keeping for his or her own personal use.

I do NOT believe that "lengthy experience, painful study and dedication as the means to become a programmer" is particularly useful for the type of people who would read this forum. Perhaps for someone interested in programming as a (long term) career path, but for VERY few others. Why in the world would a handicapper care about what programmers agonize over? And how would that help them pick more (or better) winners?

[DeltaLover]

Originally Posted by traynor

I think there is a fundamental dichotomy in intent. I am suggesting that a person interested in horse race handicapping can learn basic programming fairly quickly, and open a whole new world of possibilities in race analysis, handicapping, and even record keeping for his or her own personal use.

I do NOT believe that "lengthy experience, painful study and dedication as the means to become a programmer" is particularly useful for the type of people who would read this forum. Perhaps for someone interested in programming as a (long term) career path, but for VERY few others. Why in the world would a handicapper care about what programmers agonize over? And how would that help them pick more (or better) winners?

I understand what you are saying and do not conceptually disagree although for what you are describing here a DSL is more suitable than a generic language.

[traynor]

Originally Posted by DeltaLover

I understand what you are saying and do not conceptually disagree although for what you are describing here a DSL is more suitable than a generic language.

I think the best is whatever gets them to break out of the "OMG, this is SO complex poor little me will NEVER be able to do it" syndrome that gives them an excuse not to do something that is not all that difficult.

I agree completely that programming is something that one can continually progress in for many years, if not a lifetime. For me (and quite likely many others) it is an endless source of interest and additional learning--I do it because it is useful, but also because I really like it.

What I hope (and hoped) to accomplish on this thread is (and was) to encourage the hesitant to take those first few steps that will enable them to see for themselves what the potential is for solving their own immediate problems and difficulties with a few basic skills. I think highly enough of programming (and of the average handicapper) to believe that is all it will take to get them started on something that is a perfect adjunct to their interest in horse racing. And that will fill them with wonder that they managed to get by so long without it.

[traynor]

The purpose behind some of the recommendations I make may not be immediately apparent to the casual reader. That purpose is to "de-mystify" the process of programming into what it actually is--creating a set of simple instructions to tell a simple device how to do simple things.

That process is presented in elegant (and very understandable) manner by two of the instructors I mentioned earlier (both of whom have full semester intro courses freely available online)--David Malan and Mehrin Hasami. The latter uses the "well-designed" teaching model of Karel the Robot to illustrate the basic conceptual framework of programming as creating a set of instructions.
http://cs.stanford.edu/people/erober...earns-java.pdf

https://www.amazon.com/Karel-Robot-G.../dp/0471597252

I think learning basic programming skills will be far simpler for those who learn--at the outset--that it involves creating a basic set of instructions to accomplish something useful, rather than getting lost in a maze of philosophical complexity about obscure (and, at their stage of knowledge, completely useless) topics in programming.

[traynor]

And then:
A brief introduction to the hows and whys of Karel:

"By initially limiting the student’s language repertoire to easily grasped imperative commands whose actions are visually displayed, the Karel approach quickly and effortlessly introduces the student to such concepts as procedures and the major control structures."
https://www.cs.mtsu.edu/~untch/karel/karel90.pdf


Another resource:
http://www.learningwithrobots.com/te...wholething.pdf

Free. Worth a look.

[traynor]

The original Karel book (free ... pdf)

http://www.granburyisd.org/cms/lib/TX01000552/Centricity/ModuleInstance/3617/Karel_J_Robot(original).pdf
(copy and paste if the link doesn't work)

For those who think Karel is too trivial to bother with, consider that it is a core component of the introductory computer science class at Stanford University (and many others).

[DeltaLover]

Originally Posted by traynor

And then:
A brief introduction to the hows and whys of Karel:

"By initially limiting the student’s language repertoire to easily grasped imperative commands whose actions are visually displayed, the Karel approach quickly and effortlessly introduces the student to such concepts as procedures and the major control structures."
https://www.cs.mtsu.edu/~untch/karel/karel90.pdf


Another resource:
http://www.learningwithrobots.com/te...wholething.pdf

Free. Worth a look.

Great book for the beginer!