Religious

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by DeltaLover

What I mean is exactly that Protestants try to interpret the Bible by themselves, ignoring the Holly Tradition and the Fathers of the Church, something that has as an immediate result to fall into heretical
conclusions.

In Thessalonians 2 2-15 we read:

15*So then, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold fast to the teachings[c] we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter

Note that the word 'teachings' does not perfectly translates the original Greek text, which writes: “Παραδόσεις” which means tradition rather than teachings.

Either way though, those 'traditions' (or teachings) that were passed by word of mouth consist what the Orthodox call Holly Tradition and has exactly the same validity as the text of the Holy Bible itself.

But Protestants are not by themselves. Have you heard of the Third Person of the Godhead? Do you understand that He ministers to the Father's people?

1 John 2:27
27 And as for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him.
NASB

Mute point about 2 Thes 2:15. Traditions and teachings are used synonymously in scripture. There is not a thing wrong with holding to biblical traditions; but it is sinful to hold to the traditions of mere mortals.

Mark 7:1-13
7 And the Pharisees and some of the scribes gathered together around Him when they had come from Jerusalem, 2 and had seen that some of His disciples were eating their bread with impure hands, that is, unwashed. 3 (For the Pharisees and all the Jews do not eat unless they carefully wash their hands, thus observing the traditions of the elders; 4 and when they come from the market place, they do not eat unless they cleanse themselves; and there are many other things which they have received in order to observe, such as the washing of cups and pitchers and copper pots.) 5 And the Pharisees and the scribes asked Him, "Why do Your disciples not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat their bread with impure hands?" 6 And He said to them, "Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written, 'This people honors Me with their lips,But their heart is far away from Me. 7 'But in vain do they worship Me,Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.' 8 "Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men." 9 He was also saying to them, "You nicely set aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 "For Moses said, 'Honor your father and your mother'; and, 'He who speaks evil of father or mother, let him be put to death'; 11 but you say,' If a man says to his father or his mother, anything of mine you might have been helped by is Corban (that is to say, given to God),' 12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that."
NASB

Boxcar

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Greyfox

This thread is more suited for quacks with quirks than it is for quarks.

Now, now...don't insult Hcap like that. He can't help himself. Once you deny God...well...you're left with Nothing...and from this Great Expanse of Nothingness came the entire universe.

Let's just say no to quarks.

Not to fear. Hcap doesn't want to go there. That would be, yet, another something that he would have to magically transform into nothing.

Boxcar

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

Make of it what you will.

Okay...you have no point.

Exactly.

Boxcar

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Yeah...where did this light come from? Is light nothing?

Man are you out of it! All your objections, and whatever idiocy you choose this time to bounce around in your EXTREMELY empty has been answered many times. You, to put it succinctly know NOTHING

Therefore nothing exists and you seem to repeat it mindlessly over and over again.

What do you say we drop it until you write another 11 part BS piece about nothing?

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

Man are you out of it! All your objections, and whatever idiocy you choose this time to bounce around in your EXTREMELY empty has been answered many times. You, to put it succinctly know NOTHING

Therefore nothing exists and you seem to repeat it mindlessly over and over again.

What do you say we drop it until you write another 11 part BS piece about nothing?

You mean we don't get to hear your quackery about quarks and how these, too, are no things that are floatin' around in "empty space"?

Boxcar

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

You mean we don't get to hear your quackery about quarks and how these, too, are no things that are floatin' around in "empty space"?

Go to work and write your new 12 part BS crapola treatise and I guarantee I will comment.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

Go to work and write your new 12 part BS crapola treatise and I guarantee I will comment.

So, you want a 23 part series, now? You couldn't handle the first 11.

Look, 'cappy, you are a staunch atheist, and you should just come out of your closet and admit already. Anyone who believes that from Nothing came Something not only denies the necessity of God in creation but denies the very existence of God himself; for Something cannot coexist with Nothing. A thing cannot exist (something) and not exist (nothing) at the same time and in the same relationship. To believe this violates the Laws of Logic because it violates the Law of Non-Contradiction.

Also, as pointed out a few times already, the self-creation theory is also just philosophically bankrupt and unintelligible because it, too, violates the Law of Non-Contradiction. In order for anything to create itself it must at once be and not be. It must exist to create what doesn't exist. Also, if it existed why would it need to create?

Maybe you, Actor and TJ should all meet at Actor's daughter's upcoming wedding so that Actor can buy y'all many rounds of drinks to celebrate your thoroughly self-defeating philosophies of Atheism and Materialism. Talk about a two-headed snake....

Boxcar

[hcap]

I made a mistake and took you seriously recently, but your posts are just one ignorant rant after another. You have absolutely no concept of what things like matter, light or energy ares and are lost just doing arithmetic. The simplest mathematical expressions are beyond your pay grade. A word of advice. Better you stick to your biblical folklore fantasy world which you can babble about all you want without ever providing evidence or substantiating anything. Science and math are not your strong points, because they require you to know both well enough ---at least the basics, to at least make rational posts using common terms. Baby talk about biggy bang bang bangs, and quirky quacky quarks is about your level of expertise

Biblical LaLa land is pure fantasy that yes, we can make fun of it, but we can not demonstrate conclusively how irrational you and your circular posts really are. You can escape into your own biblical lunacy, (and you do often) but you can not bluff your way thu' science or math.

Much later.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Okay...you have no point.



Boxcar

If you didn't get it right off then it's too subtle for you.

However, I suspect that you did get it.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

I made a mistake and took you seriously recently, but your posts are just one ignorant rant after another.

You have never taken me seriously. When will you ever understand that IF there were such a thing as "empty space" (as in really empty ) neither you or any scientist would be able to know that because "empty space" would not be able to be detected by human senses or any instruments. As you might know Matter exists in three forms: Energy, Motion and Phenomena and it is this last component that that touches our senses that makes us aware of our own existence and the existence of the universe.

But you should be thankful to me, for I have brought you out of your closet and have shown you what you truly are -- a denier of God in every sense possible. But what is that to you? Nothing, of course.

Boxcar

[hcap]

Thankful to you?

Later, much later

[Actor]

Originally Posted by Greyfox

Congrats to you and your daughter.

Not that I need to know, and don't answer if you feel uncomfortable, will they be married by an ordained Minister?

I need to correct my previous answer to this question. I've been kept out of the loop on this and there have been some changes I was not informed about. First, the wedding is on a beach in the Cayman Islands, not at sea. Second, a clergyman will officiate, which she denomination she does not know nor apparently care. Not sure but said clergyman appears to be in the employ of the cruise line. Third, the honeymoon will be in Cancun, not Jamaica. That third mistake was due to my seeing a map of the cruise and I got the direction backwards. It's Florida, Jamaica, Cayman Is., Cancun, Florida; not the other way round.

Also, we're leaving very early Saturday, not Friday.

There appears to be a 30% chance of a revolving tropical storm forming just south of the route.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by DeltaLover

The only way to interpret and understand the Bible is to rely on the teachings of the Holly Tradition of the Church, ...

I.e., let other people do your thinking for you.

Originally Posted by DeltaLover

...which guarantees its validity.

How does the church guarantee it? My car came with a guarantee. If it fails the dealer fixes it. If I die and it turns out the one true religion is Hinduism how does the church fix it? It can't. Any guarantee by the church that its teachings are "valid" is worthless.

Originally Posted by DeltaLover

If we try to interpret the Bible as individuals, without relying and referring to Church, we will conclude that it does not differ from any other book and contains mistakes and inconsistencies.

Why is that? Is it possible that the Bible is like any other book? Is it possible that it does contain mistakes and inconsistencies?

Originally Posted by DeltaLover

The Holly Bible was not written as a scientific paper but to notify us about our salvation plan and how it was executed by Jesus Christ.

If it was inspired by God why did He allow the scientific inaccuracies to creep into it? Why was it necessary to allow the silly stories about the creation and the flood to it? Surely he could have passed on the word about the "salvation plan" without the faerie tales of Adam and Noah.

And if He wanted a Church to interpret the book for the common man, why didn't he provide for a consistent interpretation? Why a book that has 40,000 different interpretations, with the followers of each interpretation thinking that theirs is the only true religion? And after 4000 years He wants the OT to have a new edit and commentary (the NT), and 600 years later He wants yet another edit and commentary (the Koran)? And the followers of each of these three want to kill off the other two. Does He enjoy watching us make war? Does He enjoy watching us suffer?

This post reminds me of what Senaca said ...

Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful.

Christianity became the official religion of the Roman Empire because the Emperor Constantine regarded it as useful. It appears he continued to practice other religions after his supposed conversion. It's likely he believed none of them.

Why did the church resist the translation of the Bible into languages other than Latin and Greek? Why was William Tyndale burned at the stake for translating the Bible into English? Why? Because it threatens the rulers, the powerful, the kings with their "divine right", even the power of the church itself.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

Thankful to you?

Later, much later

Okay, you offer up thanksgiving to your god Nothingness. After all, you owe it that much for your very existence.

Boxcar

[Greyfox]

Originally Posted by Actor

I need to correct my previous answer to this question. I've been kept out of the loop on this and there have been some changes I was not informed about. First, the wedding is on a beach in the Cayman Islands, not at sea. Second, a clergyman will officiate, which she denomination she does not know nor apparently care. Not sure but said clergyman appears to be in the employ of the cruise line. Third, the honeymoon will be in Cancun, not Jamaica. That third mistake was due to my seeing a map of the cruise and I got the direction backwards. It's Florida, Jamaica, Cayman Is., Cancun, Florida; not the other way round.

Also, we're leaving very early Saturday, not Friday.

There appears to be a 30% chance of a revolving tropical storm forming just south of the route.

Well you got the part that they are getting married right.