Religious

[johnhannibalsmith]

The sequel is never as good as the original and Jesus should know this now that we've survived the 20th century. No reason to show up at this point other than he might land a reality show.

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by TJDave

That's not what you said in 13972.

"lack of scientific evidence is not proof of a lack of existence"

I have not been clear.

I am making a distinction between scientific proof and evidence. What I am saying is that I am willing to accept testimony as evidence in some circumstances even if there is no science to back it up.

For example, the testimony of multiple pilots and military people that they have seen UFOs that behaved in ways that suggests they couldn't be from earth does not constitute scientific proof or evidence of aliens. We'd need the saucer for that. However, it is evidence if you believe the witnesses are reliable enough to understand what they saw and they are being honest. So I do not feel it is appropriate to dismiss the notion that we have been visited simply because there is no scientific proof or evidence. I think being agnostic and leaning one way or the other based on your opinion of the evidence is appropriate.

I know of no reliable witnesses that have said they have seen the Tooth Fairy. There is no scientific proof either. So I feel free to reject it.

Years ago I was at a church in Canada that was lined with the crutches of long term cripples and other injured people that were supposedly cured by the patron saint of that church.

That does not represent scientific proof of God, but if I was to research it carefully and get the testimony of family, friends, family doctors, etc... about their health before and after like the Catholic Church typically does before declaring something miraculous, that would represent evidence of something extraordinary. It would also be consistent with witnesses in religious documents from thousands of years ago.

So I do not feel it is appropriate to reject God and become an atheist. I am agnostic because there is some testimony and evidence of God to be considered.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

Years ago I was at a church in Canada that was lined with the crutches of long term cripples and other injured people that were supposedly cured by the patron saint of that church.

That does not represent scientific proof of God, but if I was to research it carefully and get the testimony of family, friends, family doctors, etc... about their health before and after like the Catholic Church typically does before declaring something miraculous, that would represent evidence of something extraordinary. It would also be consistent with witnesses in religious documents from thousands of years ago.

So I do not feel it is appropriate to reject God and become an atheist. I am agnostic because there is some testimony and evidence of God to be considered.

You are losing me here...

The agnostic usually supports the notion that it is impossible to determine whether or not a "God" exists. If you have decided that there is indeed credible proof out there to support the existence of God...then what is it that makes you an agnostic instead of a believer?

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

You must be having a bad hair day today. I don't recall you ever using vulgarity before...

I've been using "BS" but I think you don't know what that means.

Originally Posted by boxcar

But since that is your position, then here is mine:

Rev 22:11
11 Let him who does wrong continue to do wrong; let him who is vile continue to be vile; let him who does right continue to do right; and let him who is holy continue to be holy."
NIV

But still no prophecy. Just platitudes. Why do you not cite the supposed prophecy? Could it be that you need time to mine the Bible for something that fits?

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

I've been using "BS" but I think you don't know what that means.

But still no prophecy. Just platitudes. Why do you not cite the supposed prophecy? Could it be that you need time to mine the Bible for something that fits?

You should know better. Do you really think you know the bible better than I do? I know it so well that I know when to not answer a fool according to his folly. And I also know it well enough to know when it's a waste casting more pearls before swine.

You're a real piece of work. First you doubted my word that a great persecution of Christians is taking place in the Middle East. (But I take it that the initiative you took searching for the facts on Google was rewarding to you? ). And now you doubt that the bible contains prophecies (in both the Old and New Testaments, I might add) concerning the Church during these end times of the Gentiles? So, who am I to ruin your ignorant doubts?

Boxcar

[Hank]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

If Jesus were to reappear on this earth, he had better behave as the bible says he should...or else Boxcar will be quick to cast the first stone...

This exact scenario is famously depicted in Dostoevsky's "The grand inquisitor" Jesus returns to earth in Spain during the time of the inquisition [bad timing] and is promptly thrown in prison and condemned to burn at the stake.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by boxcar

You should know better. Do you really think you know the bible better than I do? I know it so well that I know when to not answer a fool according to his folly. And I also know it well enough to know when it's a waste casting more pearls before swine.
Boxcar

More grandstanding from the man who says that he has not been overtaken by his ego.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

You should know better. Do you really think you know the bible better than I do?

I've never claimed to know the Bible better than you do. I've only read it once and that was in my teens. I did not memorize it but I suspect you have, or at least large parts of it. So, as an expert, help me out. Just tell me where to find this alleged prophecy.

Originally Posted by boxcar

I know it so well that I know when to not answer a fool according to his folly. And I also know it well enough to know when it's a waste casting more pearls before swine.

Translation: you know it well enough to know when you've been backed into a corner. Well enough to know when it's time to bamboozle with BS rather than give a straight answer to a simple question.

Originally Posted by boxcar

You're a real piece of work.

Thank you.

Originally Posted by boxcar

First you doubted my word that a great persecution of Christians is taking place in the Middle East. (But I take it that the initiative you took searching for the facts on Google was rewarding to you? ).

It's the same doubt I would apply to an article in a scientific journal. "What's your evidence. Show me your data."

Originally Posted by boxcar

And now you doubt that the bible contains prophecies (in both the Old and New Testaments, I might add) ...

The way to dispel those doubts is to cite the said prophecies and allow me to examine them. Give me evidence. Give me data. Give me a convincing argument.

[Capper Al]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

You are losing me here...

The agnostic usually supports the notion that it is impossible to determine whether or not a "God" exists. If you have decided that there is indeed credible proof out there to support the existence of God...then what is it that makes you an agnostic instead of a believer?

That's why I'm a Unitarian Universalist (when I go to church). We confess that we don't know the why and how the universe was created, nor does anyone else. What we believe that counts is how we treat each other.

[cj's dad]

Originally Posted by Capper Al

That's why I'm a Unitarian Universalist (when I go to church). We confess that we don't know the why and how the universe was created, nor does anyone else. What we believe that counts is how we treat each other.

100% how I feel - simple tenet of life to live by !

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Well...there is always Hcap's allegorical method which you can apply to the PPs. I mean who in their right mind would take the PP lines literally!?

Absurd comparison. I have told you many times one cannot "prove" any interpretation of any scripture whether allegorical and mythological or just literal minded. It is only possible to point to how one's beliefs are arrived at. But any belief system which violates common sense and established scientific, historical and anthropological evidence is an automatic throwout. You cannot postulate an "evil" gene and the age of the universe as 10,000 years or less, and time running backwards and expect you or your strange belief system to be taken seriously

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

Absurd comparison. I have told you many times one cannot "prove" any interpretation of any scripture whether allegorical and mythological or just literal minded. It is only possible to point to how one's beliefs are arrived at. But any belief system which violates common sense and established scientific, historical and anthropological evidence is an automatic throwout. You cannot postulate an "evil" gene and the age of the universe as 10,000 years or less, and time running backwards and expect you or your strange belief system to be taken seriously

Have a nice Travers Day. May all your horses run in the right direction, since you cannot tell the difference between chronological and logical.

Boxcar
P.S. Did you know that Yesterday Today was Tomorrow?

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Capper Al

That's why I'm a Unitarian Universalist (when I go to church). We confess that we don't know the why and how the universe was created, nor does anyone else. What we believe that counts is how we treat each other.

Another church where Ignorance is Bliss. The implied motto is: We don't know and we don't care to know.

You can't even know with certainty what you say in your last sentence. How would you know that is man's purpose in this universe?

As stated previously, if this life and this life only is all that we have -- if this life is the sum of all our Hope, then logically, we should live our lives by whatever means possible to achieve our ends -- to bring our hope to fruition before our lights burn out.

Boxcar

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

I've never claimed to know the Bible better than you do. I've only read it once and that was in my teens. I did not memorize it but I suspect you have, or at least large parts of it. So, as an expert, help me out. Just tell me where to find this alleged prophecy.

Translation: you know it well enough to know when you've been backed into a corner. Well enough to know when it's time to bamboozle with BS rather than give a straight answer to a simple question.

Thank you.

It's the same doubt I would apply to an article in a scientific journal. "What's your evidence. Show me your data."

The way to dispel those doubts is to cite the said prophecies and allow me to examine them. Give me evidence. Give me data. Give me a convincing argument.

Nah....You're just a foolish curiosity seeker. I prefer leaving you in that state per the passage in Revelations. And I no longer will cast pearls before swine. Besides...if you really wanted to know -- if that was your true desire -- there is always Google. I taught you once how to use the Goog -- now, just put your imagination to use.

Boxcar

[Hank]

Originally Posted by boxcar
You should know better. Do you really think you know the bible better than I do? I know it so well that I know when to not answer

a fool

according to his folly. And I also know it well enough to know when it's a waste casting more pearls before swine.
Boxcar


Matthew 5:22New International Version (NIV)

22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister[a][b] will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’[c] is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.