Quote:
Originally Posted by dilanesp
This gets back to psychology.
Discipline is boring. That's what limon is saying when he rattles off a bunch of great players and calls them boring.
It's no fun to fold a lot. It's especially no fun to fold a lot against players who aren't as good as you are.
So the human brain is going to come up with reasons not to fold. This is called "motivated reasoning". It's no different than how even decent horseplayers who are behind on a card will suddenly come up with some amazing betting angle on the last race on the card when they were going to pass it.
There is a grain of truth to the idea that good players can make some loose pre-flop plays and get away with them because they have a big post flop advantage, especially in deep stacked no limit.
But it's also true that this is what the brain of every poker player wants to tell itself because it's frustrating to have to fold against bad players.
What limon is saying is that the winning players have tremendous pre-flop discipline (and are boring) and that because they do, they play better post-flop as well by avoiding getting into bad situations. They make more money in the long run by passing up temptations.
And that is true, even in deep stack no limit.
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I'd never disagree with you if you simply stated that correct pre-flop play is vitally important in no limit. But you've taken this a lot further in our poker discussions here, by suggesting that NL is "essentially a pre-flop game"...and this assertion is refuted by the vast majority of the poker "experts" out there.
One of the qualities separating the "expert" player from the merely competent one is the ability to control this "temptation" that the looser pre-flop play sometimes presents during the latter stages of the hand. The expert NL player does not abide by a set-in-stone pre-flop strategy; he reshapes his pre-flop strategy in accordance with the dynamics -- and the stack sizes -- of the game that he is participating in. What the onlooker may perceive as "undisciplined" pre-flop play may in fact be the optimal way of playing for the conditions present in the particular game at hand. The "relaxed" pre-flop play isn't just an "antidote for boredom".
In NL, the pot grows at a rapid pace after each round of betting...and the betting decisions get more and more critical as the hand progresses. When the player is comparatively short-stacked...then the post-flop decisions may often be considered "automatic". But even the short-stacked player can acquire a large stack during the game...and that's when the overriding importance of proper post-flop play becomes obvious. IMO...the only time when pre-flop play becomes as important as you make it sound, is when the player insists on remaining short-stacked forever...by table-hopping whenever he acquires a large stack. But, this method is hardly the preferred approach of the expert NL player.
