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Thread: Religion II
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Old 10-07-2017, 07:48 AM   #4044
dnlgfnk
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Originally Posted by Actor View Post
It does not require a conspiracy.

Origins of religion
Why do human beings tend to be religious. The answer is found in Darwinian evolution. Humans tend to think in terms of agency. Whatever happens, be it a rustling in the grass, hot weather, cold weather, storms, floods, etc., humans think it’s caused by an agent. Rustling grass could just be the wind but it’s could also be a predator or a venomous snake. Assuming the worst, predator or snake, is the safer assumption. It carries a survival advantage, ergo, natural selection favors the believers in agency. Humans have extended this to a belief that everything is caused by an agent. Human themselves are agents. The belief is extended to events that humans are not able to cause: storms, earthquakes, floods, etc. Since humans have no control over these events then the theory of agency must postulate a super agent or agents, viz., a god or gods.

Nature of the gods
Humans have become the dominant species on the planet primarily due to their greater intelligence but also because they are social. By social I mean that they act as a group. They hunted as a group, they gathered as a group. In any large endeavor they act as a group. This requires coordination. Not being telepathic this requires a coordinator. That coordinator became the leader, a position originally held by brute strength. By virtue of this position of strength the leader was able to make demands on the rest of the group. He got first choice of whatever the group produced, he was able to demand obedience and to inflict punishment on any who opposed him or otherwise did not meet his standards.

The gods are modeled on the leader. They get what they want, they demand obedience and they punish the opposition. The believers punish the unbelievers because they think it pleases the gods.

Origins of monotheistic Judaism
Before 600 B.C.E. (approximately) the Jews in Israel were polytheistic. Yahweh was their god of war who dominated the pantheon in a position similar to Zeus in the Greek pantheon. Yahweh and Zeus may have common origins.

600 B.C.E. marks the beginning of the Babylonian Captivity. The Babylonians were monotheistic. Judaism gets its monotheism from the Babylonians. (The Garden of Eden story and the Flood story are of Babylonian origin). The Old Testament was written in Babylon during the captivity over a period of about 50 years, perhaps shorter. The OT does include some post-captivity history so obviously not all of it was written during the captivity, but the first drafts were. The only pre-captivity history in the OT that has been archaeologically verified is the existence of Jewish and Israeli kings after Solomon.

Early Christianity
Christianity has its origins in Zoroastrianism. Christianity may date from as early as 200 B.C.E. but a date of around 100 B.C.E. seems more likely. The Christ of early Christianity was a heavenly being, not a flesh and blood human. This Christ was crucified in heaven by the devil and his resurrection was likewise a spiritual event.

Candidates for a historical Jesus
There are two candidates who may be the Jesus of the Gospels. The first is Jesus ben Panthera, a Roman soldier who may have been a religious leader and who may have been crucified by the Romans around 100 B.C.E. His existence cannot be verified. The other is Jesus of Jerusalem who died around 60 C.E. and whose story has some parallels with the Jesus of the Gospels. Jesus of Jerusalem’s story is told in the writings of Josephus but is never mentioned by Christian apologists.

Origins of the New Testament
The New Testament is in four parts: the Gospels, the Acts of the Apostles, the letters and the Book of Revelation. The Book of Revelation was written by a guy on an island known for it’s hallucinogenic mushrooms so I will not discuss it here.

The letters were all written before 50 C.E. I don’t think anyone disputes that. Some of the letters may date back as far as 100 B.C.E. The notable thing about Jesus in the letters is that he fits right in with the Jesus of early Christianity (the Zoroastrian Jesus for lack of a better term). Nowhere in the letters will you find any claim that Jesus was flesh and blood.

What about the conversion of Paul (another person of dubious reality)? Does Paul (Luke?) actually claim that this Jesus was flesh and blood?

The Gospel of Mark
Scholars agree that the first gospel was the Gospel of Mark. The generally accepted date for the publication of Mark is 70 C.E. (some apologists claim 60 C.E.) Some scholars argue for a date as late as 200 C.E. Whatever, Mark is the earliest gospel, the earliest document the set down the alleged story of Jesus in writing. Mathew and Luke are based on Mark.

Timeline
  • 600 to 500 B.C.E. Writing of the Old Testament by a Jewish priesthood held captive in Babylon.
  • 200 to 100 B.C.E. Establishment of Zoroastrianism.
  • 100 B.C.E. to 50 C.E. Writing of the New Testament sans the gospels, the Acts of the Apostles, and the Revelation.
  • 70 to 200 C.E. Writing of the synoptic gospels.
The conspiracy theory
Do any of the events in the timeline require a conspiracy? Absolutely not.
  • The writing of the Old Testament in Babylon is by no means conspiratorial. It is reasonably explained as the codification of the new Jewish religion.
  • The establishment of Zoroastrianism is not conspiratorial. Who know how religions get invented? Are tales told around a campfire eventually accepted as true as they are passed orally from generation to generation? Of course the story of Joseph Smith confirms that conspirators can start a religion but I doubt that to be the norm. Religions evolve, perhaps slowly, perhaps rapidly. In general their origins are not conspiratorial. To argue otherwise is to argue that all religions, save one’s own, are conspiracies.
  • Likewise the letters of the New Testament need not be part of a conspiracy. Rather it’s a bunch of guys separated by distance exchanging ideas that each thinks should be dogma.
  • Which brings us to the Gospel of Mark. Assuming that Mark was one guy (not a group) what would be his motivation? He probably just wanted to be an author, to make money by writing a book. So he makes up the gospel story, changing the milieu from heaven to earth. To make the story believable he includes a few actual people in it, notably Pilate, Herod and John the Baptist. This scam by one writer does not add up to “a vast conspiracy involving many people.”


Sources
  • Dawkins, Richard - The God Delusion
  • Dennett, Daniel - Breaking the Spell
  • Doherty, Earl - Challenging the Verdict
  • Doherty, Earl - The Jesus Puzzle
  • Humphreys, Kenneth - Jesus Never Existed
  • Price, Robert - The Christ Myth Theory and Its Problems
  • Van Voorst, Robert - Jesus Outside the New Testament
  • Wells, G.A – Did Jesus Exist?
So predictable that the last two standing in the "Religion" thread are the two card carrying fundamentalists.

"It doesn't take a conspiracy"...just some presuppositions, like anyone else. "Sources...Dawkins, Dennett", et.al, those beacons of objectivity.

" We still remain profoundly ignorant of how religion came to dominate our species." ---Jerry Coyne
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