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[mhaney0423]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

This conversation is still going on?

We live in a corrupt country, with a corrupt media, that is constantly lying to us on foreign policy. At this point, much of our media is full of ex CIA spooks promoting an agenda.

The agenda is very simple. I keep explaining it.

1. Some people within the US (primarily sociopathic neocons with very significant influence) consider Putin a military and political adversary they could never work with. Their long term goal is to remove him from power PERIOD.

(The neocon's goal is essentially to remove everyone from power that doesn't get in line. They've killed millions of people and spent trillions of dollars doing that already in the middle east).

2. Trump considers China to be the long term economic and military threat and wants to improve relations with Putin/Russia, improve business ties and keep Russia closer to the US than China.

Trump's view is why the neocons left the republican party, aligned with democrats, and are constantly attacking Trump with all this phony Russia nonsense. He wants peace and an alignment with Russia against China. They want to remove Putin.

IMO, Trump is so obviously right, it shouldn't even be a conversation.

Putin is a corrupt SOB, but his perspective on all this is simple.

He wants to do business in Europe and around the world, wants to have influence in key energy regions of the world, wants to keep power in Russia, wants to keep enriching himself and his cronies, and wants a cushion between his borders and NATO in key regions of vulnerability given that he knows the US/NATO want him out of power. He's seen what happened to enemies of the neocons in the middle east. They are mostly dead.

He has neither the economic power or military strength to be a major threat to the world unless we provoke him into lobbing nukes somewhere. His GDP is LESS than a single US state like California, let alone the entire US, NATO, and other allies. It's a joke. He can't even beat a backward wildly corrupt country like Ukraine.

What we have to do is grow up and realize we live in a dangerous world where not everyone is or wants to be a democracy with some US puppet leader like Zelenskyy in charge. We have to stop interfering in the internal politics of other countries and overthrowing regimes we don't like.

We have to find ways to work with them that takes into account their security concerns, their economic issues, their different values and not fight direct and surrogate wars with everyone the neocons don't like.

This war, all the death, all the destruction, all the lost resources, all the shortages and hardships could be stopped very easily by simply admitting that Ukraine cannot be part of NATO with troops and missiles aimed at Moscow and Putin's backyard.

Ukraine must be neutral but guaranteed protection.

The Russian speaking areas that actually want to be part of Russia should be allowed to break away and any other land Russia has now
should behanded back to Ukraine.

That would do it and anyone that tells you otherwise is a liar whose goal is to overthrow Putin and not to find a reasonable and sustainable peace settlement.

AND, as "corrupt" as we are we DO NOT hold a candle to Russia, so there's always that, that should be factored into any response you give here.