Originally Posted by boxcar
Seriously!!!??? That's all you get out of the creation account? Did Adam and Eve actually exist or are they just filler props tossed into the allegorical script? Was there actually a fall of mankind in space and time?
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So how does the time factor relate to Covenant Theology? What difference does it make if it took God 6 days or 6 trillion years to create the universe? And are you suggesting that in the scheme of evolution, the universe is not ordered?
What "all the truths collectively"? All so-called truths under the sun discovered by fallen man and interpreted by him? Did Jesus ever go outside His Word to establish spiritual truth? I mean...once you go outside scripture to bring in some alleged truth from somewhere else, can't we twist and distort scripture beyond all recognition? Since when is truth outside scripture as pure as God's Word? Peter tells us to "long for the pure milk of the word, so that we may grow in respect to salvation..."(1Pet 2:2). How does evolution help us to grow in grace with respect to our salvation?
Yes, Paul quoted a pagan inscription to the Athenians in Acts 17, but for the specific spiritual purpose of launching into the gospel. Plus Paul did not believe in some unknown god the way theistic evolutionists believe in evolution.
And why couldn't God had been more accurate and honest and forthright and told the ancients that it took him six ages to create the heavens and the earth? Why days? And then God could have said that he "rested" in the seventh age.
Me:
I also pointed out that whenever numbered days appear anywhere in scripture, they're always literal days.
Are you serious with this question? Gen 2:4-24 is simply an expansion, an elaboration of the creation of man -- God's crowning achievement.
Me:
And there was evening and there was morning..." -- repeated of course six times, also.
Why not seven ages? Again, that would have been an infinitely more accurate depiction of what actually occurred if evolution is true.
...Only for modern readers to be told many centuries later that was never God's real intention. God's real intention, apparently, was for modern man to wait for profane, fallen, depraved men of science...
Please don't appeal (at least for my sake because it wall fall on deaf ears) to any writers outside scripture. I don't give two flips what any reformed person believed about the creation account. Those reformed folks are not my infallible, Spirit-inspired authority. Jesus was crystal clear as to who and what my spiritual authority is.
Secondly, "Reason" is only valid to the extent that the reasoning processes are governed by God's truth. As an example, do you really think that Darwin's mind, heart and soul was submissive to God's Spirit and truth when he reasoned materialistic evolution? God's word tells me that the mind set on the flesh (sinful nature) CANNOT please God -- it's not able to do so.
So...I have nothing whatsoever against "reason" as long as it's sanctified reason. How many forensic scientists have their minds transformed by Christ or by his Word?
Thirdly, I thoroughly adhere to this maxim: All truth is God's truth. There is no truth in fallen man! Nor does man invent truth. All man can do is discover truth. If God wills, he will discover God's truth; but if not, man will discover a lie and package it, label it and market it as the truth.
And right here is the very crux of our difference -- no small theololgical one!. You trust fallen, unregenerate, depraved minds to shape your bible beliefs, whereas I do not for biblical reasons.
Job 4:18-19
8 'He puts no trust even in His servants;
And against His angels He charges error.
19 'How much more those who dwell in houses of clay,
Whose foundation is in the dust,
Who are crushed before the moth!
NASB
Me:
According to theistic evolution proponents, God had additional "revelation" for modern man and has REALLY and FINALLY spoken to us by men of science to straighten out what the Son of God was incapable of fixing in these last days
Oh, but there is! The "old" revelation to the ancients was that God directly created the universe by the power of his spoken word in six days. You have already admitted this. But now the "new", modern revelation to moderns, provided to us by fallen human beings, is that God used many secondary causes in creating and that it took him nearly 14 billion years to get the job done. That sir, is new! The old evolved into the new! Kinda like how the Old Covenant morphed into the New. (But at least we were given a heads up in the OT that this would happen!)
The bottom line here is that you have not provided a convincing argument for why God repeatedly chose to use the term "day" instead of "ages", for example, in the creation account.
And God instituted many covenants apart from the use of any time frames whatsoever or the use of "day". So...your covenant argument is feeble, as well.
Moreover, you gave a specific "covenant" reason for used "day" language and the formula "evening and morning...". It's worth repeating:
So with the advent of evolutionary "truth", has God quit "covenanting himself to creation, and mar par excellence"? Who can say with certainty that God's purpose hasn't changed with the new invention of evolutionary "truth"? Who can say that God's covenant purpose wasn't as temporary at the literal day language the Holy Spirit used through Moses in the Creation account and in other places? Since the old language is disposable, then perhaps the purpose is, as well.
And by the way, I'm not angry with you. I merely describe fallen man in biblical language. Fallen human beings are no friends of God. Therefore, we logically, reasonably and biblically have no warrant for ever believing that depraved minds will ever sign on to God's truth. That will never happen (certainly on a large scale) until such a mind is reconcilled to God by his grace.
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