Quote:
Originally Posted by Light
You never proved it one iota.
On the contrary, when the words "all" or "whole world" is redefined by you, it is you who are reading a whole new meaning into it. You claim to take the the Bible as the literal word of God , but clearly you don't. Yes I understand context, but you don't.
Nobody talks like you say. If someone says "I love the whole world", it means just that. There is no context to it.
If on the other hand someone says "I love my world", then there is clearly context that it does not mean the whole world.
The word "my" is a reflexive pronoun which refers back to the person who is talking. The word "the" does not.
It also does NOT say he would NOT bring salvation to all. That's you reading into it. It certainly saying he will try to bring salvation to all. ("salvation to the ends of the earth")
You need to remember who came up with the idea that the Jews are Gods chosen ones. Drum roll:The Jews. Wow, who knew the authors of Judaism would declare they are the apple of God's eye. Such humility.
They wrote that for their own people. They declared themselves God's elect to give their race hope and strength. But that is THEIR invention, not God's.
And these chosen (elect) ones did not keep God's covenant. When the Temple was destroyed in 70AD, that was the end of their belief in Jesus as the son of God. They thought he was going to come down and destroy the Roman army who was oppressing them. Instead they were crushed by the Romans and that's why till this day they reject Jesus Christ as the Messiah.So who is your elect now?
So are you saying, the Jews,his elect, who reject Jesus as the true Messiah are the ones that will be saved because they declared they are his elect even though they don't follow him? Sorry not possible. Jesus says all that believe in me are his elect. They Jews don't believe he is the true Messiah.
While all the billions of Gentiles who do believe in Jesus and follow Jesus now will just be trashed because it does not say they are his elect in the Bible?
My point is to show how utterly stupid this concept of the elect is. The elect reject him but they are saved while the gentiles believe in him but are trashed. An absolute joke.
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In Isaiah 49, where are the GENTILES if not scattered to the ends of the earth!?
Again, the text in Isaiah does NOT say he would bring salvation to each and every on the earth. Only that salvation would eventually be brought to the Gentiles (the non-covenant people of God at the time of that writing) who were scattered all over he world.
And, yes, I know who came up with the idea that Jews are the Chosen People of God: God did!
If the scriptures are not divinely inspired as they teach, then you need to prove that.
Also, God made covenants with people prior to making the Mosaic Covenant with the Jews.
Also, Jesus was a Jew. So, going by your logic, he can't be believed because he's a biased, elitist, ego-maniacal Jew who had grandiose ideas about himself. The fact that you summarily reject the OT, speaks volumes. No wonder you CAN'T believe your "best friend". You're actually an antisemite! You're a bigot! You actually think all the Jewish OT writers are bunch of lying, religious, hateful fanatics on a giant ego trip who looked down their condescending snouts on the Gentile world, thinking that they alone had the in with the Creator of the world.
Don't forget: your "best friend" himself had the audacious temerity to think he was someone special, too, when HE made the New Covenant with the Jews -- with his disciples at the Last Supper. When He did that, he fulfilled this prophecy:
Jer 31:31-37
31[i] "The time is coming," declares the LORD,"when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. 32 It will not be like the covenant I made with their forefathers when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt,because they broke my covenant,though I was a husband to them," declares the LORD. 33 "This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time," declares the LORD."I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts.I will be their God,and they will be my people. 34 No longer will a man teach his neighbor,or a man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,'because they will all know me,from the least of them to the greatest," declares the LORD."For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more."
35 This is what the LORD says,
he who appoints the sun to shine by day,who decrees the moon and stars to shine by night,who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar — the LORD Almighty is his name: 36 "Only if these decrees vanish from my sight,"declares the LORD,"will the descendants of Israel ever cease to be a nation before me."
37
This is what the LORD says:
"Only if the heavens above can be measured and the foundations of the earth below be searched out will I reject all the descendants of Israel because of all they have done," declares the LORD.
NIV
When Jesus made that New Covenant and he blessed the cup of wine which signified his blood, he said that his blood would be poured out for
MANY. He didn't say for all. He didn't say for the world. He didn't say for everyone. He didn't say for each and every person. Since when does "many" = "everyone"?
Since Jesus never made the New Covenant with each and every person in the world, then your universalism falls dead on the floor! Jesus did indeed make the New Covenant with his Jewish disciples at the Last Supper -- and by extension with the elect Gentiles, since the Church of God, which consists of born-again, believing Jews and Gentiles is the Israel of God. But even more importantly, since Jesus fulfilled the above passage in Jeremiah 31, this was, yet, another way he claimed to be
deity! Don't forget: YHWH is speaking in the above passage: "I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel.." So, by Jesus making it, he was claiming to be equal with YHWH! It was always God Almighty himself who initiated all the covenants in the OT; and so it was at the Last Supper, as well, when the Old Covenant was getting ready to disappear forever.
But on top of all this this Jesus Christ himself is the
embodiment of the New Covenant. His Father appointed him to be a covenant "for the people".
Isa 42:6-8
6
"I am the Lord; I have called you in righteousness;
I will take you by the hand and keep you;
I will give you as a covenant for the people,
a light for the nations,
7
to open the eyes that are blind,
to bring out the prisoners from the dungeon,
from the prison those who sit in darkness.
8 I am the Lord; that is my name;
my glory I give to no other,
nor my praise to carved idols.
ESV
Note once again that in this messianic prophecy, it doesn't say to ALL the people. But to the people of the [Gentile] nations to whom Jesus would shine as a Light in this dark world.
So, yeah, Mr. Light-headed,
CONTEXT in communication means a lot. A text interpreted out of context is nothing less than a pretext. We can make anything mean anything when we ignore context.
And I'm still waiting on a bunch of answers from you. Since you insist that the term "world" = everyone, = all, = each and every person in it, then why didn't Jesus pray for everyone in this world in John 17? See...I can tell you why. But you can't because you're spiritually ignorant and your soul is filled with darkness. But I'll give you a little hint: The answer is right in John 17 itself.
Also, you need to explain why everyone in this world is presently not a born again disciple of Jesus Christ since you claim that God saves all. If indeed He's saving all, then that has to mean, according to what Jesus taught in John 6, that his Father has given all to Him to be saved and that everyone He has been given will believe on Hm in this present age. But this is hardly the factual situation in this world, is it? The vast majority in this world doesn't believe in Christ. (In fact, as Jesus taught, the world actually hates him.) You can't have this both ways: You can't say in one breath that God saves all; but then either ignore John 6 or in the next breath make some lame excuse for why all are not currently saved in this age.
Then you need to square your universalism with what Jesus taught in Matthew 25 about Him judging the world, which consists of "sheep" and "goats" at his Second Coming. Why two classes of of people if all are saved?
In fact, you haven't proved diddly squat until you reconcile all the above passages with your lame universalism.
And don't over-tax your little head with what a passage doesn't say, or with what you think it should say. Instead, address a text by what it DOES actually say. And make sure it harmonizes with the rest of scripture. For example, does this following passage teach that Christ purchased with his blood
each and every person in the world:
Rev 5:9-10
9
And they sang a new song:
"You are worthy to take the scroll
and to open its seals,
because you were slain,
and with your blood you purchased men for God
from every tribe and language and people and nation.
10 You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God,
and they will reign on the earth." ?
NIV
