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Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire
No you didn't. You asked me to assign guilt to God by your false premise either the human beings or God is guilty. You assume I am like you worldly minded. I assure you I am not. Unlike you I do not give lip service to God's sovereignty and then say let me tell you why God can't do this. Your theology is based in humanism and it suits you well.
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You're a liar. I never said what you claim, Mr. Worldy Wise Man.
Acts 3:14-16
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You disowned the Holy and Righteous One and asked that a murderer be released to you. 15
YOU killed the author of life,
but God raised him from the dead. We are witnesses of this.
NIV [/I]
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Asking is not doing. What is humorous is your insistent behavior of equating words with different meanings. Scripture clearly states the Jews asked, not did, the government did the doing. Pilate had the authority to refuse the request.
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You are insane! The Jews played a very active role in Christ's death. It was by the Jews' DOING that they tried Christ illegally and delivered him up to Pilate. And the did a lot with their mouths by insisting three times that Pilate crucify Christ. They were so hateful toward Him and adamant about him dying that they even called down a curse upon themselves and their children's heads!
Very good. So now we have you on record as being in total disagreement with what papa1 told his brethren, according to the flesh. What part of
YOU KILLED the AUTHOR of LIFE", don't you get? Papa1 must be rolling over in his grave that you don't believe his infallible words.
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That is Luther's position. God causes man to sin.
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Maybe Luther got that idea from this passage?
Isa 63:17a
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Why, O Lord, dost Thou cause us to stray from Thy ways,
And harden our heart from fearing Thee?
NASB
Or this one, perhaps?
Ps 141:4
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Do not incline my heart to any evil thing,
To practice deeds of wickedness
With men who do iniquity;
And do not let me eat of their delicacies.
NASB
If you need more passages, let me know.
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God allowed it, because Judas allowed it. Judas gave into the devil's temptation. (John 13:2). So Judas is guilty of sin. There are no references in Scripture saying Judas was not in control of his facilities, when the devil induced him. Again, you try and use a false premise as your primary weapon to induce me to make a false choice.
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Then why would God need to allow it since Judas pre-allowed God's allowing?
Besides...God could have protected Judas just as he protected Sarah from Abimelech, but He chose NOT to. Hmm...
Also, don't you know that God's will is not contingent on man's will?
Eph 1:11-12
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also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will,
NASB
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This was already addressed in my post about culpability. For emphasis, Jesus did not tell Pilate that Pilate was culpable for Jesus' death, as you allege.
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Sure he did. He told Pilate that he who delivered Him up to him had the GREATER SIN, which means Pilate still had sin -- just not more sin that he who delivered Jesus up to him! Learn to read, already. Greater sin by another means lesser sin for Pilate.
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Alright I got back to you. All your post proved is your use of false premise, use of false equivalencies of words and use of innuendo. For you to hog tie me or anyone, we would have to tie the knots ourselves, by agreeing with illogical reasoning.
Now that I reflect upon my statement, I see my mistake. Your attempt at logic is pathetic rather than humorous.
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This isn't about logic. It's about seeing how far you will stray from the infallible, authoritative Word of God. The more you stray, the more you will ensnare yourself in your own lies and wonky logic. You already disagree with Peter and Jesus and Paul. Peter told the Jews that THEY killed Jesus.
Jesus told Pilate that his sin in the sordid affair wasn't as great as the sin of those who delivered Him up to the governor. Jesus never told Pilate that he was an innocent man.
And you disagree with Paul that God's will is not contingent on man's. God works ALL things after the counsel of his OWN will. Very good. 3 strikes already. And we're just getting underway.
Also, I'm curious: Did Job suffer at the hands of the evil one because he allowed Satan to inflict him or because God granted Satan that power? Did Satan go to Peter to ask him for permission to sift him as wheat or did Satan seek God's permission? You might wanna rethink your Judas answer...Just sayin'.
Boxcar
