Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Schwartz
(I will make every attempt to not get deeply embroiled as it serves no purpose.)
First, if anyone else sees what I posted as boastful, then I have really missed the mark.
Again, I repeat, I've done nothing to attain any of this. All I know is that I experience it.
I never said that evangelism was unnecessary. I said that it was not up to me to choose who to speak to.
Now, Boxcar, there is no doubt that you know the bible backwards and forwards. However, it appears to me that you see it as a rule book. That is so very Hebrew of you.
THE ONLY POINT THAT MATTERS
That whole cut-and-dried rule book approach inevitably leads to a DO LIST and a DON'T LIST. That, logically, leads to an guilt-ridden and unhappy life.
What I learned via discipleship (and am still learning - as I still occasionally take issues to my spiritual father after 23 years) - What I learned was that the character of God is what is most important.
One of the key points of God's character is that HE IS THE PERFECT PARENT. (Something that none of us ever experienced.)
Bible thumping people (and pastors) learn the bible. It becomes all about the DO LIST and the DON'T LIST, as opposed to the RELATIONSHIP between a father and child.
Most Christians that I have known in my life go through life with the feeling that if they screw up God will cause the roof to fall in on them. That is not how the Perfect Father would treat his children.
The emphasis in the old testament was definitely fire and brimstone. God was always smiting people. In fact, coming from Judaism to Christianity, that was the most difficult thing to understand. What was this whole God-is-love-thing, anyway?
Back to the roof caving in. Most of you are fathers. If your son was screwing up, you do not crush him. You want him to admit his mistakes, be contrite, and commit to not doing it again.
Most of all, you want to restore fellowship between the two of you because without being in fellowship, the teaching component is pretty much unavailable.
That is what the relationship with God is all about.
As for sin, there is just no point in concentrating on sinning less, because you will just never overcome it.
Besides, that is not really what God wants.
What he wants is for us to be transformed as in the graphic below.
Instead of sweating the sin, instead over time, our POV on life will become more like God's. As that happens, it is logical that sin will lessen.
At times God will call to our attention a particular sin and ask for it to be addressed now. If (or when) we ignore it, he begins to turn up the heat. As the temperature goes higher, eventually it becomes an issue that places us out of fellowship with Him.
The state of fellowship is known as "abiding." When we are not abiding, we may lose many of the "fruits of the spirit." (You can Google that.)
FINAL POINT
See how there is no condemnation in this? That's because it is a parental relationship that is based upon LOVE rather than FEAR.
That's the Jesus Christ relationship that I know and experience.
Best to you all.
Dave |
You make the bible sound like it's nothing more than a book of good fatherly advice.
As Jesus said, "Why do you call me LORD, and not DO what I say"?
Or..."Not everyone who says to me 'LORD, LORD' will enter the kingdom of heaven; but he who DOES the will of my Father who is in heaven." (Mat 7:21)
You might also want to read the Parable of the Talents, etc., etc.
Your position regarding evangelism is typical of a
hyper-Calvinist,who basically views all the work of evangelism as falling solely on God's shoulders. While it is true that Salvation is God's work, this is only a half truth. For just as God preordained in eternity past who He will effectively call, justify and glorify, it is equally as true that He has also ordained the
the various means to achieving His ends, e.g. intercessory prayer, gospel preaching and evangelism -- all carried out by God's priests, i.e. His Church!
One of the really big problems I have with hyper-Calvinism is that it's downright cold-hearted. I cannot personally understand how a child of God who loves God, knows that God has saved him, has experienced many temporal and spiritual blessings from the hand of his Heavenly Father, has had many prayers answered and knows what his exceedingly great reward is in the next life, cannot be motivated and moved by the love of God within him to not want to take advantage of every opportunity to share the Gospel of the Kingdom with as many lost and dying souls as possible. How can such a person keep the really Good News of God's exceedingly great salvation so quiet and under wraps? In your case, is it because you had direct revelation from God like Paul did on the Road to Damascus? God didn't send anyone to you to preach the gospel?
As Jesus also taught, "If you love Me, you will keep my commandments." (Jn 14:15) There is no greater motivation for obeying God than having God's love shed abroad in our hearts, so that we in turn can express his love within toward our neighbor. And anyone who truly loves God will never find any of His commandments burdensome (1Jn 5:3)
You speak of your experiences with God, so permit me to share one of my mine. When I began searching for God over 30 years, I prayed to him in very specific terms. I told him in my prayer that if he's hearing me, and he knows my heart, then he knows that I'm not going to go from church to church trying to find the truth, especially because of my poor experiences with the Catholic Church. I told him that if he's real and he's listening, he'll have to send someone to me or point me to a specific church. Long story short: He eventually put me in the path of a Christian who in turn sent me to a church where I struck up a relationship with a wonderful, kind, gentle, patient and loving pastor. This pastor eventually led me to the Lord.
But here's the real "punch line" to this true story: When I was a kid, I grew up having a rebellious anti-authority attitude towards all authority figures. And I carried this chip on my shoulder up to the day of my salvation. God is certainly greater than our hearts, and he knew exactly what kind of person I needed to meet to win me over. He put me in the path of someone who was totally antithetical to the types of people I frowned upon all my life.
It is not legalistic to obey God's commands out of our love for Him. Quite the contrary! God so loves his children that after he justifies us, his holy resolve is to sanctify us -- to deliver us from the power of sin.
God refuses to have any slaves to sin in his family!. Christ
freed his people from the bondage of sin. This is why the apostle John tells us that those born of God
cannot continue in sin (1Jn 3:9)!
One more thing: I disagree with your take on the OT. God's love and grace and mercy is seen everywhere in the OT.
Shalom!
