Quote:
Originally Posted by boxcar
Dave "boasts" that he's a 4.5 pt. Calvinist. I've got him beat. I'm a 5-star Calvinist because it's sound biblical theology. So, how is it that Dave and I see evangelism very differently? I'd say the difference is the Word of God. Dave, by use of his own reason, has reasoned that because God freely and sovereignly chooses who He will save and who He won't, that somehow God's sovereign will in this matter precludes any need for evangelism. At first blush, this has the appearance of sound logic. But sadly, the human logic has become derailed because it's not guided by the "tracks" of the Spirit and the Word of God. If it were, Dave would know that the same God who has decreed the ends from the beginning also decreed the means to those ends.
|
(I will make every attempt to not get deeply embroiled as it serves no purpose.)
First, if anyone else sees what I posted as boastful, then I have really missed the mark.
Again, I repeat, I've done nothing to attain any of this. All I know is that I experience it.
I never said that evangelism was unnecessary. I said that it was not up to me to choose who to speak to.
Now, Boxcar, there is no doubt that you know the bible backwards and forwards. However, it appears to me that you see it as a rule book. That is so very Hebrew of you.
THE ONLY POINT THAT MATTERS
That whole cut-and-dried rule book approach inevitably leads to a DO LIST and a DON'T LIST. That, logically, leads to an guilt-ridden and unhappy life.
What I learned via discipleship (and am still learning - as I still occasionally take issues to my spiritual father after 23 years) - What I learned was that the character of God is what is most important.
One of the key points of God's character is that HE IS THE PERFECT PARENT. (Something that none of us ever experienced.)
Bible thumping people (and pastors) learn the bible. It becomes all about the DO LIST and the DON'T LIST, as opposed to the RELATIONSHIP between a father and child.
Most Christians that I have known in my life go through life with the feeling that if they screw up God will cause the roof to fall in on them. That is not how the
Perfect Father would treat his children.
The emphasis in the old testament was definitely fire and brimstone. God was always smiting people. In fact, coming from Judaism to Christianity, that was the most difficult thing to understand. What was this whole God-is-love-thing, anyway?
Back to the roof caving in. Most of you are fathers. If your son was screwing up, you do not crush him. You want him to admit his mistakes, be contrite, and commit to not doing it again.
Most of all, you want to restore fellowship between the two of you because without being in fellowship, the teaching component is pretty much unavailable.
That is what the relationship with God is all about.
As for sin, there is just no point in concentrating on sinning less, because you will just never overcome it.
Besides, that is not really what God wants.
What he wants is for us to be transformed as in the graphic below.
Instead of sweating the sin, instead over time, our POV on life will become more like God's. As that happens, it is logical that sin will lessen.
At times God will call to our attention a particular sin and ask for it to be addressed now. If (or when) we ignore it, he begins to turn up the heat. As the temperature goes higher, eventually it becomes an issue that places us out of fellowship with Him.
The state of fellowship is known as "abiding." When we are not abiding, we may lose many of the "fruits of the spirit." (You can Google that.)
FINAL POINT
See how there is no condemnation in this? That's because it is a parental relationship that is based upon LOVE rather than FEAR.
That's the Jesus Christ relationship that I know and experience.
Best to you all.
Dave
