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-   -   Breeders' Cup in Mid December?Board set to discuss major event changes (http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=142955)

Andy Asaro 01-24-2018 02:42 PM

Breeders' Cup in Mid December?Board set to discuss major event changes
 
http://www.drf.com/news/breeders-cup...-event-changes

Excerpt:

“Any kind of ideas or thoughts that we are analyzing or discussing we don’t discuss in public until we have acted on them,” Fravel said. “We’re looking at millions of things all the time.”

According to officials, items up for discussion include potential host sites for the 2019 event and beyond; the possibility of adding a 14th race to the two-day event, restricted to 3-year-olds; the rescheduling of the full two-day event to mid-December; and the rescheduling of the Classic to a date one month later than the two-day event, a radical proposal that is being supported by board member Bobby Flay, the celebrity chef who is a horse owner and breeder.

Though an intermediary, Flay declined to comment on his proposal Wednesday, but three officials confirmed that Flay is leading the effort to promote the idea, despite misgivings from some Breeders’ Cup officials.

GMB@BP 01-24-2018 03:57 PM

I dont think moving to say December is the worst idea...it does get drowned by football in the current slot, heck the dates used to be set around ND football.

cj 01-24-2018 04:33 PM

That pretty much rules out everywhere but California, doesn't it?

classhandicapper 01-24-2018 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cj (Post 2265506)
That pretty much rules out everywhere but California, doesn't it?

Maybe that's their idea. ;)

Tom 01-24-2018 05:03 PM

Sounds like pretty stupid ideas to me.
Flay been smoking his oregano?

Move the Classic to a whole different weekend?????

I love thinking outside the box, but this is thinking outside the skull!

Saratoga_Mike 01-24-2018 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom (Post 2265534)
Sounds like pretty stupid ideas to me.
Flay been smoking his oregano?

Move the Classic to a whole different weekend?????

I love thinking outside the box, but this is thinking outside the skull!

Perfectly said.

jay68802 01-24-2018 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cj (Post 2265506)
That pretty much rules out everywhere but California, doesn't it?

or Gulfstream.

Oaklawn or Churchill as maybe's.

GMB@BP 01-24-2018 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jay68802 (Post 2265542)
or Gulfstream.

Oaklawn or Churchill as maybe's.

Thats what I would imagine, but Oaklawn has no turf course and I have no clue about the type of hotel rooms they have.

Churchill in December is just as much a gamble as Churchill in November, at least when I lived there.

castaway01 01-24-2018 05:34 PM

While having the Classic at a separate time makes no sense, moving the whole event a month later is actually a pretty good idea.

Andy Asaro 01-24-2018 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cj (Post 2265506)
That pretty much rules out everywhere but California, doesn't it?

Think that's part of the idea.

Quesmark 01-24-2018 06:35 PM

With a BC in December,and a new "Derby" race for 3yo only;,wouldn't trainers have to keep horses in training longer,since the next season would be getting underway soon after the previous one ended.Less layoffs,more starts for the top level competition assuming they remain healthy + sound...

Fager Fan 01-24-2018 06:55 PM

The BC proves yet again that they can't stand to leave well enough alone.

They already created a new class of horse called The Who? BC Winner.

Once upon a time the winners of a BC race really accomplished something to be respected. Now 2nd tier horses win so regularly non-championship caliber BC races, we don't even remember who they are.

So not content with having screwed it up bad enough already, they're exploring how to completely total it.

Morons.

Afleet 01-24-2018 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom (Post 2265534)
Sounds like pretty stupid ideas to me.
Flay been smoking his oregano?

Move the Classic to a whole different weekend?????

I love thinking outside the box, but this is thinking outside the skull!

maybe they can run the BC classic on the Pegasus' undercard:lol:

MonmouthParkJoe 01-25-2018 09:44 AM

In terms of adding another race, it doesn't bother too much.

The moving of dates I am not sure about. If you split the classic to another day, I am sure they would have some supporting races moved under it to justify it. This would lead me to believe the two day format would be split.

If you ran one day of races on one weekend then the classic a couple others weeks later, it would all but eliminate me from ever attending unless it was local. It is costly enough with airfare and hotel but at least I get two days of racing. Doing the same thing for one day and then possibly a second is just too costly, add to that you run into the holiday season in December.

Tom 01-25-2018 10:11 AM

Hmmmm.......I see the reasoning behind it now.
Flay gets to cook TWO expensive meals!

depalma113 01-25-2018 10:39 AM

Here's a better idea for Breeders Cup Limited. They need to get creative with their wagering options.

My idea is the Pick 6 Plus wager. (Could also be done as a Pick 4, or Pick 3)

It combines fantasy and regular parimutuel wagering.

It would be a $4 minimum bet.

$2 would go into the fantasy pool that pays out to the top 20% of winners and $2 would go into the regular Pick 6 pool.

The player would choose a horse from each race and their final score would be based on the total dollar amount their horses won over those six races.

The player would only get one horse per race, but could enter numerous times to go deeper in individual races.

That ticket would also be live in the Pick 6.

One ticket, two ways to win!

No other sport can offer you a chance to win twice with the same entry!

The fantasy players would flock to it.

Go on Draftkings or Fanduel and you will see people have no problem paying $4 for an entry into a guaranteed prize pool and many would enter up to 500 times if it wasn't capped at 20 - 150 entries per contest.

Tom 01-25-2018 10:52 AM

Most of my horizontal bets already incorporate a good deal of fantasy.:p

Robert Fischer 01-25-2018 10:56 AM

add some chorizo and relish


Why the **** should Bobby Flay be used as an 'appeal to authority' here?

No disrespect to Flay, but he's known as a 'celebrity owner'. It's great that he associates his brand with racing. It does help the sport. He may well be some great thinker and an expert in strategic event planning and horse racing, but we've never had the privilege of seeing that side of him yet.

depalma113 01-25-2018 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom (Post 2265847)
Most of my horizontal bets already incorporate a good deal of fantasy.:p

See you are already ahead of the game.

Thomas Roulston 01-25-2018 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quesmark (Post 2265582)
With a BC in December,and a new "Derby" race for 3yo only;,wouldn't trainers have to keep horses in training longer,since the next season would be getting underway soon after the previous one ended.Less layoffs,more starts for the top level competition assuming they remain healthy + sound...


And also an "Oaks" race for three-year-old fillies - plus the Fair Grounds and Lone Star Park would also be in the mix.

jay68802 01-25-2018 01:13 PM

The moving of the dates to December does one thing. It makes the host track owned by TSG. A point was made earlier that Oaklawn can't host it, and that leaves the only other possible tack Churchill Downs. And that turf course in December would be a nightmare. Not to mention that attendance would be affected by the weather. Looks like a move by TSG to get the Breeders Cup as one of their events.

dilanesp 01-25-2018 02:09 PM

I think it is nuts.

Fager Fan 01-25-2018 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jay68802 (Post 2265902)
The moving of the dates to December does one thing. It makes the host track owned by TSG. A point was made earlier that Oaklawn can't host it, and that leaves the only other possible tack Churchill Downs. And that turf course in December would be a nightmare. Not to mention that attendance would be affected by the weather. Looks like a move by TSG to get the Breeders Cup as one of their events.

Some of you must think Stronach lives under your bed.

While what you said is true, this stupid idea would have to go somewhere warm which rules out everywhere but CA basically, there's no indication that anyone but Flay is behind this idea.

dilanesp 01-25-2018 04:13 PM

The thing about the "go somewhere warm" theory is if you wanted to do that, you would simply "go somewhere warm". I think everyone here knows they have flirted with the idea of holding it at Santa Anita every year. They don't do that, but they do hold it at Santa Anita a lot, and one of the reasons is precisely that it is somewhere warm.

But if you move it to December-- guess what, Southern California, like everywhere else, is COLDER in December. Which would defeat the purpose of going somewhere warm.

My guess is that there are some horsemen who grumble about having to run their 3 year olds against older horses, and they are trying to respond to that. At any rate, the idea is nuts.

Fager Fan 01-25-2018 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dilanesp (Post 2266013)
The thing about the "go somewhere warm" theory is if you wanted to do that, you would simply "go somewhere warm". I think everyone here knows they have flirted with the idea of holding it at Santa Anita every year. They don't do that, but they do hold it at Santa Anita a lot, and one of the reasons is precisely that it is somewhere warm.

But if you move it to December-- guess what, Southern California, like everywhere else, is COLDER in December. Which would defeat the purpose of going somewhere warm.

My guess is that there are some horsemen who grumble about having to run their 3 year olds against older horses, and they are trying to respond to that. At any rate, the idea is nuts.

I'd bet my life savings that this hasn't happened. Trainers all know that 3yos run against older horses at that time of year. Always have and always shall be. Besides, they gave the reason. "Derby envy."

Redboard 01-25-2018 07:19 PM

I'd be OK with a 3yrold turf route, but not a dirt route. The BCC without 3yrolds would suck.

Fager Fan 01-25-2018 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redboard (Post 2266088)
I'd be OK with a 3yrold turf route, but not a dirt route. The BCC without 3yrolds would suck.

Are there really that many G1 turf 3yo routers to need that race? Any evidence that they can't hold their own against older? The open turf races are the only races to have multiple fillies, and 3yo fillies, to win.

biggestal99 01-26-2018 08:33 AM

Breeders cup derby in December? Why?

moving BC to december would make the current preps for the races moot

Laurel? would not mind it for a singleBC Is it big enough?

Allan (who has attend the last 17 straight BCs)

rastajenk 01-26-2018 09:15 AM

I think they should make that month-later race be for all the winners of the previous month's BC races....young and old, gender-mixing, turfs and dirts...at 7 1/2 furlongs on a turf course with a 1/4 mile dirt stretch...:faint:


Swing for the fences, BC. (It would make for some epic handicapping, wouldn't it?) :cool:

Tom 01-26-2018 10:28 AM

Let's put one BC race each Saturday night at Charlestown, that way everyone gets something. :rolleyes:

Thomas Roulston 01-26-2018 11:54 AM

No way in December, but I have never understood why there has never been a Breeders' Cup in Maryland, home of one of the three jewels of the Triple Crown.

Monmouth Park, yes. Lone Star Park, yes. But Laurel or Pimlico, no?

olddaddy 01-26-2018 01:08 PM

Mid December would get more euros to come but as others have said it could only be run at SA, DMR and GP.

Denny 01-26-2018 02:28 PM

BC DERBY
 
I favor the opposite from what they are considering.

Too many horses fall by the wayside during the long campaigns they have.

Good 3-YO's start in Jan or Feb to prepare for the Derby and TC.
Hardly any of them are around by the end of the year.

The Fall meets, like Belmont, have lost much of their glory due to the BC.

If they want a BC DERBY, run it in late SEPTEMBER or the first week of OCTOBER. A horse could still run in the Classic against older in November.

dilanesp 01-26-2018 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas Roulston (Post 2266422)
No way in December, but I have never understood why there has never been a Breeders' Cup in Maryland, home of one of the three jewels of the Triple Crown.

Monmouth Park, yes. Lone Star Park, yes. But Laurel or Pimlico, no?

Pimlico is a non-starter (people are extremely uncomfortable at the Preakness) and Laurel needs more seats.

There have been at least some discussions about Laurel, but there are also weather issues of course.

Fager Fan 01-26-2018 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denny (Post 2266500)
I favor the opposite from what they are considering.

Too many horses fall by the wayside during the long campaigns they have.

Good 3-YO's start in Jan or Feb to prepare for the Derby and TC.
Hardly any of them are around by the end of the year.

The Fall meets, like Belmont, have lost much of their glory due to the BC.

If they want a BC DERBY, run it in late SEPTEMBER or the first week of OCTOBER. A horse could still run in the Classic against older in November.

Sure, but that'd just weaken existing top races.

This is pure selfishness on the part of the BC. They don't care which tracks and races they screw with such inane ideas. The top 3yos don't need protection at that time of year, nor do they need more money added to their coffers. The BC doesn't need any more money either to pay their purses.

The BC more and more reminds me of a benefit program for the elite of the sport.

fiznow 01-26-2018 07:22 PM

Not good ideas imo. And honestly I liked the BC best when it was a one day event.

Lemon Drop Husker 01-26-2018 08:15 PM

2 Day Event at Santa Anita every year.

Just get it over with. :headbanger:

dilanesp 01-26-2018 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lemon Drop Husker (Post 2266736)
2 Day Event at Santa Anita every year.

Just get it over with. :headbanger:

That makes the most sense for deciding championships, because there would rarely be an off track.

But they make plenty of money when they go to Churchill (which is local to a lot of industry heavy hitters), and despite the fact they do poorly at Belmont, there's still an argument for going out there occasionally if NYRA ever decides they want to host it again, just because Belmont is such a great track and is a so much easier ship for the Europeans.

I honestly don't see the point of holding it anywhere other than those three tracks, however. (And if they did just hold it at SA, that would be fine.)

carlonr 01-26-2018 09:40 PM

Just follow the money...
 
With the amount of money that Del Mar made last year, Del mar will definitely be in any rotation. More money ultimately means larger purses. The interesting thing is that the next BC at Del Mar will make even more money. Last year they only used 3 of the temporary structures instead of 7 like they used at Keeneland. Also, Del Mar could have easily accommodated more people because (they now realize) the crowd is more of a "sit down" crowd instead of a "walk around crowd." Of course this is primarily due to a higher ticket price and most importantly, Del Mar / San Diego is a prime tourist location which means that more people come for 3-5 days instead of just Saturday. the Friday handle at Del Mar was very high, as was the attendance.

Denny 01-26-2018 09:44 PM

With all the money TSG is spending on Laurel, it's a strong possibility it will be there in the next few years.

Del Mar, if they could upgrade the track dimensions, has to be considered again. Wouldn't you think?
The betting was pretty strong.

What about Keeneland? It's the heart of the breeding industry.

The original concept was to move it around. Yes?


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