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-   -   Fans advocacy group to support safety? (http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=142588)

thaskalos 01-03-2018 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fager Fan (Post 2256779)
Those reports see wide circulation. Everyone in racing has read them and knows this to be the case. It isn't indication of being brought back to racing prior to proper healing of a previous serious injury. Instead, it's the beginning stages of the future fracture.

The problem is detection. If the horse is showing no signs of lameness, then it can get past the trainer, the trainer's vet, and the state vet. This isn't to say that there aren't trainers who will overlook or cover up signs of lameness, but most are conscientious.

The problem isn't "detection"...the problem is that the trainers aren't punished enough when they show a blatant disregard for the instituted medication laws of this game. If the problem was "detection"...then illegal substances like cobra venom and frog juice wouldn't get the attention that they've gotten in recent years. And it isn't just the lesser-known trainers at the minor tracks who indulge in the use of these powerful painkillers, whose sole purpose is to numb these unfortunate horses to the injuries that they are forced to race with.

"Cobra venom is a therapeutic", declared the internationally well-known trainer Patrick Biancone...when veils of cobra venom were discovered in his barn in 2007. His training licence was suspended, but it was later reinstated by the KHRA...because he had supposedly "served his time". "Serving his time" means that a criminal is allowed to return to "society at large" after paying his debt to society...it doesn't mean that he gets to return to the profession that he already disgraced by his prior offences. When a doctor gets imprisoned for intentionally mistreating his patients, he gets released after "serving his time"...but he isn't allowed to return to practicing medicine. But these are mere "technicalities", as far as horseracing is concerned...and the game's "integrity" problems are allowed to persist. And we are supposed to believe that the business interests aren't placed ahead of the horses' safety in this game. :rolleyes:

AltonKelsey 01-03-2018 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fager Fan (Post 2256641)
Thank you.

There are many in the business who take great care of the horses.

There's a sickening story with photos making its round on FB about the ass**** who left a dog chained to the front porch in this weather and it was found frozen to death. Do we condemn all dog owners?

no, but I condemn the authorities for not invoking the death penalty in cases like that

Gasser57 01-03-2018 03:22 PM

So as many here may already know, it looks like the Jockey Club and NTRA are perhaps the leading advocates for horse and jockey safety. I found the Jockey Club's Equine Injury Database - http://jockeyclub.com/default.asp?se...vocacy&area=10 - and found some interesting info. While all tracks have the opportunity to participate and make their data available, most don't even though it's free.

Here's NTRA's map of tracks that are Safety and Integrity accredited according to their standards - https://www.ntra.com/safety-integrit...itedfacilities.

A quick comparison suggests most of those who report on the injury database are also NTRA accredited, although Churchill Downs is a notable exception. Also, it doesn't appear that the tracks on these lists necessarily have the lowest number of fatalities. For instance, Del Mar had over 3 per 1,000 starts last year - almost twice as many as when the database was started in '09 and about double the average for all the reporting tracks.

When time permits, I'm going to use these resources as a starting point to see if I can create some sort of green/yellow/red list that might provide those like myself who are unfamiliar with a track's safety record with some reference in case they want to steer clear of tracks with poor safety standards.

Redboard 01-03-2018 04:09 PM

NYRA has a website where they log all of their equine injuries.

https://breakdown.gaming.ny.gov/

In my opinion, the NYRA tracks (Belmont, Saratoga & Aqueduct) care the most about this issue. These three tracks have the highest purses and the most vet scratches.

All tracks want to have full fields, that brings in the betting money. A track offering a $100 purse is not going to get as many potential starters as a track offering $100k purses. Therefore, the former isn't going to be as "picky" as the tracks offering higher purses.

Gasser57 01-03-2018 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redboard (Post 2256872)
NYRA has a website where they log all of their equine injuries.

https://breakdown.gaming.ny.gov/

In my opinion, the NYRA tracks (Belmont, Saratoga & Aqueduct) care the most about this issue. These three tracks have the highest purses and the most vet scratches.

All tracks want to have full fields, that brings in the betting money. A track offering a $100 purse is not going to get as many potential starters as a track offering $100k purses. Therefore, the former isn't going to be as "picky" as the tracks offering higher purses.

Thanks Redboard - that's a helpful link. Woodbine also has a real low fatality rate, so maybe the Canadians are on to something. Interestingly, as a group the larger California tracks have a higher than average rate.

Fager Fan 01-03-2018 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thaskalos (Post 2256793)
The problem isn't "detection"...the problem is that the trainers aren't punished enough when they show a blatant disregard for the instituted medication laws of this game. If the problem was "detection"...then illegal substances like cobra venom and frog juice wouldn't get the attention that they've gotten in recent years. And it isn't just the lesser-known trainers at the minor tracks who indulge in the use of these powerful painkillers, whose sole purpose is to numb these unfortunate horses to the injuries that they are forced to race with.

"Cobra venom is a therapeutic", declared the internationally well-known trainer Patrick Biancone...when veils of cobra venom were discovered in his barn in 2007. His training licence was suspended, but it was later reinstated by the KHRA...because he had supposedly "served his time". "Serving his time" means that a criminal is allowed to return to "society at large" after paying his debt to society...it doesn't mean that he gets to return to the profession that he already disgraced by his prior offences. When a doctor gets imprisoned for intentionally mistreating his patients, he gets released after "serving his time"...but he isn't allowed to return to practicing medicine. But these are mere "technicalities", as far as horseracing is concerned...and the game's "integrity" problems are allowed to persist. And we are supposed to believe that the business interests aren't placed ahead of the horses' safety in this game. :rolleyes:

You think pointing out the one case of cobra venom being found in someone's barn in the past 10 years explains the break down rate of today's horses and the microfractures that (understandably) are usually the cause of the weakened bone breaking? And tells us that the sport as a whole doesn't give a damn about the horses? Some don't, but the majority do.

Look at all the people screaming for poor ol' Ron Ellis. I have had no use for the CHRB ever since they let Baffert and all the other trainers off the hook for their horses dropping dead, but here the CHRB gives a decent punishment and people want to defend Ellis. So the authorities in this game are rather damned if they do, damned if they don't.

JustRalph 01-03-2018 06:53 PM

Fan advocacy has been so successful in the past...........let’s start..........:bang:

Gasser57 01-04-2018 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustRalph (Post 2256960)
Fan advocacy has been so successful in the past...........let’s start..........:bang:

Has there ever been an organized fan effort to boycott tracks, trainers, breeders, and owners that have a record of disregarding the health of horses?

rastajenk 01-04-2018 02:59 PM

I would hope not, since proving such a thing would be about impossible. Not that that matters to sjw's, even those within the realm of racing.

Denny 01-04-2018 03:11 PM

How about all the horses that died at Saratoga last year.

Believe it was 16 in 6 weeks. Way above averages.

Gasser57 01-04-2018 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rastajenk (Post 2257236)
I would hope not, since proving such a thing would be about impossible. Not that that matters to sjw's, even those within the realm of racing.

Not if it’s a matter of public record. And don’t label those of us who care about the horses “sjw’s”.

JustRalph 01-04-2018 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gasser57 (Post 2257233)
Has there ever been an organized fan effort to boycott tracks, trainers, breeders, and owners that have a record of disregarding the health of horses?

Do a search for …boycott....on this board. The tracks don’t care even when boycotted.

SaratogaSteve 01-05-2018 12:31 AM

I find this thread, and similar ones here, hilarious. Most folks here don't care about the horseflesh - look at the San Luis Rey thread for all you need to know. This thread has more posts than it.

thaskalos 01-05-2018 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaratogaSteve (Post 2257422)
I find this thread, and similar ones here, hilarious. Most folks here don't care about the horseflesh - look at the San Luis Rey thread for all you need to know. This thread has more posts than it.

Since you yourself have chosen to post here without having first posted in the San Louis Rey thread...the assumption must be made that YOU don't care about the horseflesh, either. Right?

cj 01-05-2018 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaratogaSteve (Post 2257422)
I find this thread, and similar ones here, hilarious. Most folks here don't care about the horseflesh - look at the San Luis Rey thread for all you need to know. This thread has more posts than it.

I don't remember if I posted in that thread or not. In my case that sure doesn't mean I don't care and didn't help. I'm sure there are others here in that situation.

There isn't a whole lot most people can do other than give money. Some people can't or won't do that. In a game where we pay 20 cents on the dollar to play, it really isn't the bettors job to police how horse's are treated. There are people in actual paid positions to do that.


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