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-   -   Gulfstream sticking it to horseplayers again (http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=142505)

cj 12-28-2017 04:26 PM

Gulfstream sticking it to horseplayers again
 

cj 12-29-2017 05:25 PM

I guess people are numb to Gulfstream, nobody seems to care. Won't bother in the future.

Denny 12-29-2017 05:31 PM

I care CJ.
Check my last post on the Jockey thread, made just a few minutes ago before reading this!

The name I coined for them is GulfSCAM Park.

You should see some of the posts I've made over the years at HRI (HorseRaceInsider.com).

GMB@BP 12-29-2017 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cj (Post 2255014)
I guess people are numb to Gulfstream, nobody seems to care. Won't bother in the future.

I refuse to wager on that place after all your comments.

cj 12-29-2017 05:37 PM

They are calling these race "about" 7.5f but the times given are not for an about distance. They are for exactly 7.5f. It is just a blatant lie to cover up the sham that the distance of these races really is.

AstrosFan 12-29-2017 07:56 PM

The rebuilt GP is a sham!

Andy Asaro 12-30-2017 12:47 PM






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jay68802 12-30-2017 01:09 PM

One problem here is the the track is not set to have 7.5f races. When the races are run at that exact distance the first turn is to close to the starting gate. The other problem is that the owners and trainers want the 7.5f races. So the track bows to them, and as a result, handicappers are left with the problem of how to deal with the resulting information.

I am a landlord, and I try very hard to keep my renters happy. Fix the plumbing, keep the grass mowed, snow removal are all things that I have learned that are not to be put off. As a result, I have very few openings and no trouble filling them when I do. I am as proud of this as CJ seems to be of the accuracy of his figures. He seems to care not only because of his reputation, but he understands that his customers use his product because of this.

Horse racing seems not to have these values. They view their customers as revenue, and that is it. Can tracks time races accurately? Yes, but would rather spend the money by increasing purses than investing money in ways to keep their customers. Could horse racing get rid of drugs? Yes, but instead spend their revenue in other ways. Customer satisfaction is part of this game that could be easily increased, and the best way to do this is obvious.

Stop the song and dance and show some integrity.

dilanesp 12-30-2017 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jay68802 (Post 2255295)
One problem here is the the track is not set to have 7.5f races. When the races are run at that exact distance the first turn is to close to the starting gate. The other problem is that the owners and trainers want the 7.5f races. So the track bows to them, and as a result, handicappers are left with the problem of how to deal with the resulting information.

I am a landlord, and I try very hard to keep my renters happy. Fix the plumbing, keep the grass mowed, snow removal are all things that I have learned that are not to be put off. As a result, I have very few openings and no trouble filling them when I do. I am as proud of this as CJ seems to be of the accuracy of his figures. He seems to care not only because of his reputation, but he understands that his customers use his product because of this.

Horse racing seems not to have these values. They view their customers as revenue, and that is it. Can tracks time races accurately? Yes, but would rather spend the money by increasing purses than investing money in ways to keep their customers. Could horse racing get rid of drugs? Yes, but instead spend their revenue in other ways. Customer satisfaction is part of this game that could be easily increased, and the best way to do this is obvious.

Stop the song and dance and show some integrity.

Why not just standardize the run up and gice the exact distance then?

cj 12-30-2017 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jay68802 (Post 2255295)
One problem here is the the track is not set to have 7.5f races. When the races are run at that exact distance the first turn is to close to the starting gate. The other problem is that the owners and trainers want the 7.5f races. So the track bows to them, and as a result, handicappers are left with the problem of how to deal with the resulting information.

I am a landlord, and I try very hard to keep my renters happy. Fix the plumbing, keep the grass mowed, snow removal are all things that I have learned that are not to be put off. As a result, I have very few openings and no trouble filling them when I do. I am as proud of this as CJ seems to be of the accuracy of his figures. He seems to care not only because of his reputation, but he understands that his customers use his product because of this.

Horse racing seems not to have these values. They view their customers as revenue, and that is it. Can tracks time races accurately? Yes, but would rather spend the money by increasing purses than investing money in ways to keep their customers. Could horse racing get rid of drugs? Yes, but instead spend their revenue in other ways. Customer satisfaction is part of this game that could be easily increased, and the best way to do this is obvious.

Stop the song and dance and show some integrity.

Horsemen might want them for some unknown reason that makes no sense, but with the ridiculous run up they aren't really 7.5 furlong races anyway.


Gulfstream gets everything wrong. They can't time races, the make up a race and phony double the purse. The lie about run up and distance. They mistimed the Pegasus. The put the gate in the wrong place for a 5f turf stake. And yesterday, the creme de la creme, they released this ad a short time after a bunch of horses died in a fire. You can't make it up.


jay68802 12-30-2017 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dilanesp (Post 2255312)
Why not just standardize the run up and gice the exact distance then?

The distance does not fit the track. To get the right distance when you move the rail out, the starting gate is still to close to the first turn. And the owners and trainers complain because the outside draws are at a disadvantage. Increasing the run up just adds to the problem. Just quit carding the bad distance and call it a flat mile, that is basically what it is anyway.

jay68802 12-30-2017 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cj (Post 2255324)
Horsemen might want them for some unknown reason that makes no sense, but with the ridiculous run up they aren't really 7.5 furlong races anyway.


Gulfstream gets everything wrong. They can't time races, the make up a race and phony double the purse. The lie about run up and distance. They mistimed the Pegasus. The put the gate in the wrong place for a 5f turf stake. And yesterday, the creme de la creme, they released this ad a short time after a bunch of horses died in a fire. You can't make it up.

https://twitter.com/PegasusWorldCup/...59032676724736

Wow, I don't know what to say about the add. In their own little world I guess, no class.

jay68802 12-30-2017 01:58 PM

I think Andy Beyer did a opinion column on this very subject, and gave some reasons why the horsemen wanted this distance. I try to find it.

Lemon Drop Husker 12-30-2017 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cj (Post 2255324)
Horsemen might want them for some unknown reason that makes no sense, but with the ridiculous run up they aren't really 7.5 furlong races anyway.


Gulfstream gets everything wrong. They can't time races, the make up a race and phony double the purse. The lie about run up and distance. They mistimed the Pegasus. The put the gate in the wrong place for a 5f turf stake. And yesterday, the creme de la creme, they released this ad a short time after a bunch of horses died in a fire. You can't make it up.

https://twitter.com/PegasusWorldCup/...59032676724736

CJ, I certainly appreciate your personal war on American horse racing to be factual with timing, information, and all the includes wiht that, but the Pegasus ad I have to give a pass.

I have little doubt they have been working on that ad for well over 6 months, and yes, it looks horrible now.

Some breaks do need to be given.

cj 12-30-2017 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lemon Drop Husker (Post 2255346)
CJ, I certainly appreciate your personal war on American horse racing to be factual with timing, information, and all the includes wiht that, but the Pegasus ad I have to give a pass.

I have little doubt they have been working on that ad for well over 6 months, and yes, it looks horrible now.

Some breaks do need to be given.

You make a new ad, come on. It isn't that tough. Ads get pulled all the time as situations change. And six months? Come on, you could do that in a day.

Lemon Drop Husker 12-30-2017 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cj (Post 2255347)
You make a new ad, come on. It isn't that tough. Ads get pulled all the time as situations change. And six months? Come on, you could do that in a day.

Why is it offensive?

Or are people just overly sensitive nowadays?

cj 12-30-2017 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lemon Drop Husker (Post 2255352)
Why is it offensive?

Or are people just overly sensitive nowadays?

Maybe you are underly sensitive? Horses on fire just not a good look right now in my opinion. Obviously you disagree. I'm sure you didn't really need me to tell you why I find it offensive, right?

AltonKelsey 12-30-2017 02:32 PM

The Ad is unfortunate. They really should pull it, if they haven't already.

Lemon Drop Husker 12-30-2017 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cj (Post 2255355)
Maybe you are underly sensitive? Horses on fire just not a good look right now in my opinion. Obviously you disagree. I'm sure you didn't really need me to tell you why I find it offensive, right?

Ok. They budget this ad, and then are stormed by other expenses including Hurricane Irma.

GS has given to Cali racing. Do you want them to expend more expenses that will be put on the horseplayer, which is what will more than likely happen with a better ad that 1 out of 1,000 people will see?

cj 12-30-2017 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lemon Drop Husker (Post 2255371)
Ok. They budget this ad, and then are stormed by other expenses including Hurricane Irma.

GS has given to Cali racing. Do you want them to expend more expenses that will be put on the horseplayer, which is what will more than likely happen with a better ad that 1 out of 1,000 people will see?

Come on, an eight grader could make that ad in his basement in a day.

Lemon Drop Husker 12-30-2017 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cj (Post 2255374)
Come on, an eight grader could make that ad in his basement in a day.

Well, I assume you are above 8th grade.

Make it and send it to them to make as their ad.

You are bitching to bitch.

cj 12-30-2017 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lemon Drop Husker (Post 2255379)
Well, I assume you are above 8th grade.

Make it and send it to them to make as their ad.

You are bitching to bitch.

Yeah, you're right. Its my fault. Gulfstream is perfect. Carry on.

Lemon Drop Husker 12-30-2017 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cj (Post 2255382)
Yeah, you're right. Its my fault. Gulfstream is perfect. Carry on.

Yep, that is exactly what I said.

Grow up man. Have some balls to look at a different opinion than your own.

And yes. Carry on.

PaceAdvantage 12-30-2017 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cj (Post 2255374)
Come on, an eight grader could make that ad in his basement in a day.

Yup

PaceAdvantage 12-30-2017 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lemon Drop Husker (Post 2255388)
Have some balls to look at a different opinion than your own.

That's a good one. I'll put that in my book of totally ridiculous comebacks.

Denny 12-30-2017 02:55 PM

Unbelievably bad taste by the Stronach Group to show that add of a horse appearing to be on fire after San Luis Downs fire.

Another reason to add to my list on why I HATE GP and don't ever bet them.

How about the FINISH LINE on Turf races.

WHERE IS IT EXACTLY?

Are we supposed to guess based on some red tape on the rail?

Look at some photo-finish photos on a close finish. The RED TAPE extends BEYOND where the horses are!

PaceAdvantage 12-30-2017 02:58 PM

While complaining endlessly about the shortcomings of certain (all?) tracks is cool and all, I start thinking, after reading these things over and over again, that some of that "bitching time" could be better spent actually improving your handicapping skills. That is, if they could use improving, as I know most everyone who posts here thinks they are the best handicapper in the world...but only most of you, not all of you.

"All of you" is reserved for those posting on twitter. :lol::lol::lol:

cj 12-30-2017 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage (Post 2255403)
While complaining endlessly about the shortcomings of certain (all?) tracks is cool and all, I start thinking, after reading these things over and over again, that some of that "bitching time" could be better spent actually improving your handicapping skills. That is, if they could use improving, as I know most everyone who posts here thinks they are the best handicapper in the world...but only most of you, not all of you.

"All of you" is reserved for those posting on twitter. :lol::lol::lol:

I post while handicapping, doesn't take me long. :)

cj 12-30-2017 03:03 PM

Gulfstream has deleted the tweet apparently. Good for them.

jay68802 12-30-2017 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denny (Post 2255399)
Unbelievably bad taste by the Stronach Group to show that add of a horse appearing to be on fire after San Luis Downs fire.

Another reason to add to my list on why I HATE GP and don't ever bet them.

How about the FINISH LINE on Turf races.

WHERE IS IT EXACTLY?

Are we supposed to guess based on some red tape on the rail?

Look at some photo-finish photos on a close finish. The RED TAPE extends BEYOND where the horses are!

Depends on if they are using the regular finish line or the "alternative" finish line. They have two of them.

PaceAdvantage 12-30-2017 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cj (Post 2255407)
I post while handicapping, doesn't take me long. :)

Yeah, I wasn't thinking of you when I wrote that...but you knew that...:headbanger:

Lemon Drop Husker 12-30-2017 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage (Post 2255397)
That's a good one. I'll put that in my book of totally ridiculous comebacks.

I'll take that as a compliment. :headbanger:

Denny 12-30-2017 03:31 PM

The "IMAGINARY" Finish Line.

When they show head-on replays afterwards they sometimes stop it BEFORE they even reach the red tape.

Plus the camera lines up with the inside rail. You get an angle view. The farther away the rails are from the inside, the worse the angle.

GP is a 2nd, no make that 3rd class operation masquerading as 1st.

Afleet 12-30-2017 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denny (Post 2255443)
The "IMAGINARY" Finish Line.

When they show head-on replays afterwards they sometimes stop it BEFORE they even reach the red tape.

Plus the camera lines up with the inside rail. You get an angle view. The farther away the rails are from the inside, the worse the angle.

GP is a 2nd, no make that 3rd class operation masquerading as 1st.

Do what I do-don't play it

Tom 12-30-2017 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jay68802 (Post 2255423)
Depends on if they are using the regular finish line or the "alternative" finish line. They have two of them.

Plan B? :pound::pound:

jay68802 12-30-2017 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom (Post 2255649)
Plan B? :pound::pound:

Just in case the first one does not work.:)

alhattab 12-31-2017 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jay68802 (Post 2255423)
Depends on if they are using the regular finish line or the "alternative" finish line. They have two of them.

They use the alt finish only for 1 1/16 races on dirt I believe.

For the grass races I've always assumed the end of the red tape but based Denny's post will take another look while watching today

thespaah 12-31-2017 04:10 PM

I read the entire thread.
One question comes to mind.
What useful purpose is served by Gulfstream management fudging the run up distance, incorrectly reporting the run up or not reporting it at all?
Another question.
What useful purpose is served by mistiming of races?
And last one. Instead of caving to these prima donna horsemen, why does the racing secretary just not "yes them to death" and not card the distance?
What are they going to do? Boycott the entry box? Call Brookledge and have them haul off their horses to......Uh oh.....Where?

cj 12-31-2017 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thespaah (Post 2255933)
I read the entire thread.
One question comes to mind.
What useful purpose is served by Gulfstream management fudging the run up distance, incorrectly reporting the run up or not reporting it at all?
Another question.
What useful purpose is served by mistiming of races?
And last one. Instead of caving to these prima donna horsemen, why does the racing secretary just not "yes them to death" and not card the distance?
What are they going to do? Boycott the entry box? Call Brookledge and have them haul off their horses to......Uh oh.....Where?

My theory is there are much bigger problems with the timing of races than we know about. They figure if the times are going to be wrong, lets make sure nobody can check them easily and pretend everything is fine.

thespaah 12-31-2017 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cj (Post 2256009)
My theory is there are much bigger problems with the timing of races than we know about. They figure if the times are going to be wrong, lets make sure nobody can check them easily and pretend everything is fine.

Which brings me back to my question. For what possible purpose?
Or am I just so cynical, the I cannot stop myself from believing Gulfstream management has an ulterior motive?


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