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-   -   Odds changes during races WHAT A JOKE (http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=142423)

VigorsTheGrey 12-23-2017 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onefast99 (Post 2253240)
The "exchange" system is a separate system from the pari-mutuel system. The "exchange" system is based on layers and backers, the layer is the one who believes the event will not happen(bet against) while the backer believes the event will happen(bet for). I have played the exchange about 8 times now each and every time it becomes easier. You are betting as the race is in progress
The odds are about 20% better for the "exchange" many of the times than the pari-mutuels. "Exchange" has a takeout of only 12% as well.

Thanks, yes...the exchange is a different system...I was just wondering how the timing of betting on horses running down the stretch works in real time...

Now if I was at the track, what, do I make the wager when I see my horse 3 lengths ahead and drawing away...? Sounds pretty good to me, but by then have all the layers jumped ship and are now on board with my horse also so we all get 2/5 odds..

But mainly I was interested in what hardware and connections people use to get in these last second bets...some of the tv feeds that I see have 1 minute or more delays in broadcast time so by the time you see the horses in the stretch the race is already over in reality, so how can they still allow betting to occur...

onefast99 12-23-2017 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VigorsTheGrey (Post 2253256)
Thanks, yes...the exchange is a different system...I was just wondering how the timing of betting on horses running down the stretch works in real time...

Now if I was at the track, what, do I make the wager when I see my horse 3 lengths ahead and drawing away...? Sounds pretty good to me, but by then have all the layers jumped ship and are now on board with my horse also so we all get 2/5 odds..

But mainly I was interested in what hardware and connections people use to get in these last second bets...some of the tv feeds that I see have 1 minute or more delays in broadcast time so by the time you see the horses in the stretch the race is already over in reality, so how can they still allow betting to occur...

If you are in NJ go to 4njbets.com there is a tutorial on this as well on the betfair site. If there is a direct match for your bet it will be placed. I haven't encountered yet where the bet wasn't taken.

JohnGalt1 12-23-2017 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom (Post 2253227)
I would like them fix the tote system and also stop betting 1 minute before post time.

Didn't all tracks do this for awhile after the pick 6 scandal?

cj 12-23-2017 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnGalt1 (Post 2253296)
Didn't all tracks do this for awhile after the pick 6 scandal?

Some definitely did, not sure if it was all of them. However, foolish bettors complained so much they stopped. We reap what we sow.

dilanesp 12-23-2017 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cj (Post 2253310)
Some definitely did, not sure if it was all of them. However, foolish bettors complained so much they stopped. We reap what we sow.

People hate being shut out. I was shut out at Aqueduct yesterday when my voucher was stuck in a machine and it took the guy 5 minutes to get to the machine and fix it. (It saved me money. :) )

castaway01 12-23-2017 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VigorsTheGrey (Post 2253256)
Thanks, yes...the exchange is a different system...I was just wondering how the timing of betting on horses running down the stretch works in real time...

Now if I was at the track, what, do I make the wager when I see my horse 3 lengths ahead and drawing away...? Sounds pretty good to me, but by then have all the layers jumped ship and are now on board with my horse also so we all get 2/5 odds..

But mainly I was interested in what hardware and connections people use to get in these last second bets...some of the tv feeds that I see have 1 minute or more delays in broadcast time so by the time you see the horses in the stretch the race is already over in reality, so how can they still allow betting to occur...

If you try to bet on a horse with a three-length lead entering the stretch on the NJ exchange, you MIGHT get the bet matched but it will be at 1-100 odds, not 2-5 (the lowest odds are 1.01-1, and that's what a horse with a three-length lead at that point in the race will be at). A few people will lay that because more than 1 out of 100 times a horse with a lead will stop late or something else bizarre will happen. It's really not the lucrative money-making idea it might seem for either side.

I have never seen a TV feed that is 1 minute behind. It might be a few seconds, but I guess that's a chance you take if you want to bet on the exchange. As OneFast said, it's not exactly revolutionary technology---Betfair has done in-race wagering in Europe for years.

cj 12-23-2017 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dilanesp (Post 2253317)
People hate being shut out. I was shut out at Aqueduct yesterday when my voucher was stuck in a machine and it took the guy 5 minutes to get to the machine and fix it. (It saved me money. :) )

If the time the pools will close is now known and someone still gets shut out they are not very bright.

Robert Fischer 12-23-2017 05:02 PM

The hourly workers at Gulfstream Park would never allow this.

molson721 12-23-2017 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fager Fan (Post 2253135)
Would it make a difference to you if the odds changed after you bet, regardless of whether it's during the running or in a 2 minute cutoff? So how does racing stop the odds from changing from the last minute betting?

Today's computers can process information almost instantly. They are close to coming up with computer driven driver-less cars. You can place an order on the New York stock exchange or a wager on a race seconds before the race goes off and after you hit send, the order goes through almost instantly. To think there is nothing wrong with this shows age, a lack of today's computer abilities or both. I hope that doesn't come off as an insult because it is not meant to be. Are the people calculating the odds using an abacus?? Its called technology and there is no excuse for this. I would not have wagered what I did if the horse was closer to 4-1 instead of 11-1 at post time. For theodds to change twice during a 5 furlong sprint is ridiculous. It isn't difficult USING MODERN TECHNOLOGY to update the odds every 30 seconds especially close to post time. By the way, significant for me is a $50(not enough to cause the drop in odds) win bet instead of the usual $10-15 plus a few smaller exotics and my win bet was placed after the first horse was loaded. I wager the same amount every day and try to be disciplined in my betting but sometimes when I think I am getting a great price, I go against what I usually wager so I am not a big fish but the blue collar guy racing doesn't really care about.

PaceAdvantage 12-23-2017 07:52 PM

It's not a case of updating the odds...it's a case of having all these simulcast sites sending in their wagers to the host track instantly...something that doesn't happen currently.

The host track can't update the odds if it doesn't have accurate pool info. And it can't have accurate pool info until all the money is in.

Therein lies the problem.

Fager Fan 12-23-2017 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson721 (Post 2253448)
Today's computers can process information almost instantly. They are close to coming up with computer driven driver-less cars. You can place an order on the New York stock exchange or a wager on a race seconds before the race goes off and after you hit send, the order goes through almost instantly. To think there is nothing wrong with this shows age, a lack of today's computer abilities or both. I hope that doesn't come off as an insult because it is not meant to be. Are the people calculating the odds using an abacus?? Its called technology and there is no excuse for this. I would not have wagered what I did if the horse was closer to 4-1 instead of 11-1 at post time. For theodds to change twice during a 5 furlong sprint is ridiculous. It isn't difficult USING MODERN TECHNOLOGY to update the odds every 30 seconds especially close to post time. By the way, significant for me is a $50(not enough to cause the drop in odds) win bet instead of the usual $10-15 plus a few smaller exotics and my win bet was placed after the first horse was loaded. I wager the same amount every day and try to be disciplined in my betting but sometimes when I think I am getting a great price, I go against what I usually wager so I am not a big fish but the blue collar guy racing doesn't really care about.

Let's assume its instantaneous. Youre still in the same boat, you only learn of it quicker. If you're playing a last second game against the whales, it's tough for you to win.

If I played substantial money in this sport, I'd be demanding equal treatment for all bettors. It seems to me that the rebates, and huge rebates to whales,takes more money from smart players than anything else.

MonmouthParkJoe 12-23-2017 08:50 PM

Given that 40% of total pools come in during the last mtp, I cant see anyone stopping a minute before the race and closing the pools.

Bot wagering isnt as simple as saying computers process quickly. Its a bit more complex that that, but they have access to the pools allowing them to place wagers quickly.

It was already mentioned here ,but think of the entire US tote scenario similar to the way airlines are set up. Certain ones have hubs in different areas of the country and always fly in and out even if it makes trips longer. Tote is similar, and having to have double hops before being pulled into the pools can create shifts in the end.

What track were you wagering on?

cj 12-23-2017 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonmouthParkJoe (Post 2253487)
Given that 40% of total pools come in during the last mtp, I cant see anyone stopping a minute before the race and closing the pools.

You don't think people would adjust and realize 1 MTP was actually 1 MTP? They'd still bet 40% in the last minute, they'd just actually know when the 1 MTP is.

Whosonfirst 12-23-2017 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage (Post 2253474)
It's not a case of updating the odds...it's a case of having all these simulcast sites sending in their wagers to the host track instantly...something that doesn't happen currently.

The host track can't update the odds if it doesn't have accurate pool info. And it can't have accurate pool info until all the money is in.

Therein lies the problem.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
A track insider went over this in some detail a while back, maybe six months ago. My biggest problem has never been the shifting odds, but getting my horse across the finish line first.

therussmeister 12-23-2017 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cj (Post 2253490)
You don't think people would adjust and realize 1 MTP was actually 1 MTP? They'd still bet 40% in the last minute, they'd just actually know when the 1 MTP is.

Just like people betting Gulfstream know that 0 mtp = 5 mtp, or 8 mtp if it is the start of the rainbow 6.


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