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-   -   Have there ever been any really good books done on the distance & surface of a race? (http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=159611)

Bill Cullen 08-01-2020 12:08 AM

Have there ever been any really good books done on the distance & surface of a race?
 
Have there ever been any really good books done on the distance and surface of a race? Most of the studies I've seen treat distance secondarily.

Thanks in advance if you reply and I'm a little slow in acknowledging.

Bill C

Psychotic Parakeet 08-01-2020 03:58 AM

1 Attachment(s)
I painstakingly compile distance specific stats, as they really help me with handicapping, way better than any other method I have tried. I have done it so far for the turf routes at Del Mar for their summer season. I get jockey/trainer, sire/broodmare combination, post position, ML and final odds, lay-off data, and running styles. You'd be surprised what you unearth. Some jockeys are crazy-good with certain distances and surfaces.

Here is an example after 20 races so far from the Del Mar meet with the 8.0F turf races:

Bill Cullen 08-01-2020 10:17 AM

Hi PP,

Thanks for your reply and your information.

Best,

Bill C

Tom 08-01-2020 11:33 AM

Good question.
A couple of weeks ago, Andy Serling and Tom Amos were talking about the differences between a 9 furlong race at Toga as opposed to Belmont, 1 turn vs 2 turns. Another topic Andy has talked about a lot is turn backs.

We should start a thread in the Handicapper's Corner and talk about this topic, and one about surface. I remember someone posting about surface handicapping a while ago - maybe a search here for "surface handicapping" will turn up something....good topics! :headbanger:

I will use my db to check things out, as best I can, and I am sure others will join in.

mountainman 08-08-2020 12:15 AM

The difference between many t-bred distances is not real estate, or even a horse's innate ability to cover the specified furlongs at an individualized rate of travel. T-breds do not perform in vacuums, and the differences are field composition as relates to running style, gate skills, race-flow, and trips.

As I've said lots of times on the show, the real difference between 5 1/2 and 6 furlong races is NOT 110 yards.

BTW, on a deeper level, it's the commonly shared (mis?)perceptions amongst horsemen concerning distance that, in my opinion, gives races of various distances such a dissimilar look.

Bill Cullen 08-08-2020 12:31 AM

Hi Tom,

Thanks for your reply and your information.

Best,

Bill C

Bill Cullen 08-08-2020 12:32 AM

Hi mountainman,

Thanks for your reply and your information.

Best,

Bill C

PressThePace 08-08-2020 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainman (Post 2640141)
BTW, on a deeper level, it's the commonly shared (mis?)perceptions amongst horsemen concerning distance that, in my opinion, gives races of various distances such a dissimilar look.

I could not agree more. There are times when I scratch my head at some of the placements that trainers make when it is crystal clear what distance the horse needs.


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