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-   -   Religion II (http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=136470)

boxcar 02-21-2017 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VigorsTheGrey (Post 2124327)
Each one is already a significant point of substance...or don't you understand this...?

No...not really. I'm not biting at the bait.

Show Me the Wire 02-21-2017 05:46 PM

[YT="Donall and Conall"]0d4FHHf00pY[/YT]

Actor 02-21-2017 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boxcar (Post 2124346)
And so you waste your time in this thread for what reason, specifically? Why not seek important topics out that might provide you with an opportunity to actually make a point of substance for once in your life?

Why don't you?

thaskalos 02-21-2017 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boxcar (Post 2124311)
Yeah, you do because you are so duplicitous, as you have just proved again. Always moving the goalposts.




Again, Jesus' existence is accepted by most scholars in this world. Some eyewitnesses to his life, death, burial and resurrection actually wrote parts of the NT -- John and Peter. Luke traveled with Paul and had the eyewitness accounts of the apostles Paul met with -- plus other eyewitnesses. Paul also saw the risen Christ and he wrote at least seven epistles. It is also very likely that Matthew is the Jewish tax collector Levi who came to faith in Jesus. (It was very common in the ANE for a person to have two first names!) Mark was very good friends with Peter and undoubtedly drew very much of his material from the apostle, etc.

In short, Jesus' existence is extremely well attested to. It is no wonder that no ancient writer or historian ever disputed his existence. Not even the Christ-hating Jews in the Babylonian Talmud denied his existence. And if anyone didn't want Jesus to exist, it would have been them!

The gospels of the NT were all written anonymously, and nothing in them identifies, in ANY way, who the authors were...or with which other "gospel authors" these anonymous writers "associated".

Oddly enough...the author of the "Gospel of Thomas" fully identifies himself in the text as "Thomas O Didymos", who was "Doubting" Thomas...an acknowledged disciple of Jesus. But that gospel, although written by an authentic Jesus disciple, did not please the Church...so, it was despised and subsequently rejected. As a result, the "anonymous gospels" were accepted as "fact"...while the text written by the legitimate disciple was called "heretical"...and thrown away. Truth is indeed stranger than fiction. :faint:

HalvOnHorseracing 02-21-2017 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VigorsTheGrey (Post 2124260)
If you don't read other books Boxcar, you'll never get exposed to new ideas...surely you are not one of those narrow minded persons who get all of their viewpoints from one source, are you....?

now that was funny.

Actor 02-21-2017 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boxcar (Post 2124311)
Yeah, you do because you are so duplicitous, as you have just proved again.

Ad hominem attack! Also violates #4,9 & 12 of the TOS.
Quote:

Originally Posted by boxcar (Post 2124311)
Again, Jesus' existence is accepted by most scholars in this world.

Argumentum ad populum! I.e., appeal to the people. If enough people believe it, it must be true.
Quote:

Originally Posted by boxcar (Post 2124311)
Some eyewitnesses to his life, death, burial and resurrection actually wrote parts of the NT -- John and Peter. Luke traveled with Paul and had the eyewitness accounts of the apostles Paul met with -- plus other eyewitnesses. Paul also saw the risen Christ and he wrote at least seven epistles. It is also very likely that Matthew is the Jewish tax collector Levi who came to faith in Jesus. (It was very common in the ANE for a person to have two first names!) Mark was very good friends with Peter and undoubtedly drew very much of his material from the apostle, etc.

In short, Jesus' existence is extremely well attested to. It is no wonder that no ancient writer or historian ever disputed his existence. Not even the Christ-hating Jews in the Babylonian Talmud denied his existence. And if anyone didn't want Jesus to exist, it would have been them!

As you are fond of saying, "We've been down this road before." The question of the moment is whether the alleged resurrection is the most attested event in ancient history. It's an outlandish claim and as the claimant the burden of proof is on you.

boxcar 02-21-2017 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Actor (Post 2124410)
Ad hominem attack! Also violates #4,9 & 12 of the TOS.
Argumentum ad populum! I.e., appeal to the people. If enough people believe it, it must be true.
As you are fond of saying, "We've been down this road before." The question of the moment is whether the alleged resurrection is the most attested event in ancient history. It's an outlandish claim and as the claimant the burden of proof is on you.

Oh, it is indeed. The resurrected Christ was seen by four (4) NT writers (not 3 as previously stated). Peter, John and Paul. Then there is James who wrote James. Granted, scholars aren't certain which James is it is: Is it one of the original apostles or is it Jesus' brother James who converted after he saw his resurrected brother? In either case...all the above were certainly contemporary with Jesus. Then you toss in Mark who received much of his material from Peter. And Luke saw all the apostles (or certainly most of them) and traveled with Paul. So, Luke got much of his information from them, as well as being eyewitness to many if not most of the miracles Paul performed, etc., etc. We couple all these facts with the consistency of all the different resurrection accounts, the transformed lives, the thousands who converted to Christ through gospel preaching etc., and the resurrection is the logical inference to the best explanation.

Have a nice night, sir.

thaskalos 02-21-2017 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boxcar (Post 2124425)
Oh, it is indeed. The resurrected Christ was seen by four (4) NT writers (not 3 as previously stated). Peter, John and Paul. Then there is James who wrote James. Granted, scholars aren't certain which James is it is: Is it one of the original apostles or is it Jesus' brother James who converted after he saw his resurrected brother? In either case...all the above were certainly contemporary with Jesus. Then you toss in Mark who received much of his material from Peter. And Luke saw all the apostles (or certainly most of them) and traveled with Paul. So, Luke got much of his information from them, as well as being eyewitness to many if not most of the miracles Paul performed, etc., etc. We couple all these facts with the consistency of all the different resurrection accounts, the transformed lives, the thousands who converted to Christ through gospel preaching etc., and the resurrection is the logical inference to the best explanation.

Have a nice night, sir.

"Resurrection", and "logical"...used in the same sentence...without speaking in jest. If this is what "faith" is...then I want no part of it.

boxcar 02-21-2017 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thaskalos (Post 2124430)
"Resurrection", and "logical"...used in the same sentence...without speaking in jest. If this is what "faith" is...then I want no part of it.

Right. You'd much prefer to stick with your irrational blind doubts.

thaskalos 02-21-2017 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boxcar (Post 2124435)
Right. You'd much prefer to stick with your irrational blind doubts.

If I believe that a man actually resurrected himself from the dead, then...could I ever doubt ANYTHING in life?

VigorsTheGrey 02-21-2017 09:15 PM

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus

There is a possibility that Josephus aided members of the Flavian dynasty to concoct a new religious narrative in the attempt to transform rebellious Jews into subservient taxpayers.....and the new narrative worked as many Jews converted....Josephus fully defected to the Roman side.

VigorsTheGrey 02-21-2017 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thaskalos (Post 2124439)
If I believe that a man actually resurrected himself from the dead, then...could I ever doubt ANYTHING in life?

I doubt it, paradoxically...

Actor 02-22-2017 03:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boxcar (Post 2124425)
Oh, it is indeed. The resurrected Christ was seen by four (4) NT writers (not 3 as previously stated).

And Snow White lived for years with seven horny guys, remained a virgin, and was resurrected by love's first kiss. :rolleyes:

VigorsTheGrey 02-22-2017 11:13 AM

Pagan Origins of the Christ Myth by JGJackson
 

Actor 02-22-2017 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boxcar (Post 2123823)
I dedicate this thread to all skeptics -- Actor, Hcap, Thaskalos, Vig, etc. This is the place to come to learn about true religion and the one true God.

Am I first in the list because you think I'm the most skeptical? Or is it just in alphabetical order? :coffee:

VigorsTheGrey 02-22-2017 01:30 PM

For a brief synopsis of the psychological unpinnings of the rabidly regilious mindset see page 503 of the following document:

https://archive.org/stream/MichaelTs.../n503/mode/1up

And the pages that follow page 505 are well worth the time spent here to examine their contents...

TJDave 02-22-2017 01:45 PM

500 pages???

Can't you just say bat**** crazy and be done with it?

boxcar 02-22-2017 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Actor (Post 2124387)
Why don't you?

Because you'd miss me.

VigorsTheGrey 02-22-2017 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TJDave (Post 2124691)
500 pages???

Can't you just say bat**** crazy and be done with it?

OK, bat......crazy!....but it still is an interesting read....and even with all this, religionists will admit no problems....all is well....in the garden, Chauncey...

boxcar 02-22-2017 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Actor (Post 2124666)
Am I first in the list because you think I'm the most skeptical? Or is it just in alphabetical order? :coffee:

Why do you ask: Are you looking to be awarded with a trophy of participation?

boxcar 02-22-2017 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Actor (Post 2124517)
And Snow White lived for years with seven horny guys, remained a virgin, and was resurrected by love's first kiss. :rolleyes:

That's so sweet of you to believe that. You do have a feminine side, heh?

boxcar 02-22-2017 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thaskalos (Post 2124439)
If I believe that a man actually resurrected himself from the dead, then...could I ever doubt ANYTHING in life?

Sure you could! If God didn't have the power to raise the dead, then he wouldn't be all-powerful, would he?

dnlgfnk 02-22-2017 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TJDave (Post 2124691)
500 pages???

Can't you just say bat**** crazy and be done with it?

You were right, TJDave...

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/s...highlight=Jews

dnlgfnk 02-22-2017 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VigorsTheGrey (Post 2124260)
If you don't read other books Boxcar, you'll never get exposed to new ideas...surely you are not one of those narrow minded persons who get all of their viewpoints from one source, are you....?

Do you own a mirror?

Actor 02-22-2017 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boxcar (Post 2124700)
Why do you ask: Are you looking to be awarded with a trophy of participation?

Do they have that?

boxcar 02-22-2017 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Actor (Post 2124874)
Do they have that?

Oh yeah...in this new leftist Amerika -- there are no winners and losers, as is the case in the real world -- only winners. Where have you been?

Actor 02-23-2017 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boxcar (Post 2124951)
Where have you been?

All the states west of the Mississippi except Alaska, Hawaii, Washington & Oregon. All the states east of the Mississippi except those east of New York.

Canada, Mexico, Jamaica and Grand Cayman.

Much more before I die.

Not sure I should count New Jersey. We were in Philadelphia and got lost. Wound up in NJ and returned to Philadelphia without stopping. Also maybe should not count Wisconsin. We drove from Chicago to Minneapolis and drove all the way through Wisconsin without stopping.

boxcar 02-23-2017 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Actor (Post 2125196)
All the states west of the Mississippi except Alaska, Hawaii, Washington & Oregon. All the states east of the Mississippi except those east of New York.

Canada, Mexico, Jamaica and Grand Cayman.

Much more before I die.

Not sure I should count New Jersey. We were in Philadelphia and got lost. Wound up in NJ and returned to Philadelphia without stopping. Also maybe should not count Wisconsin. We drove from Chicago to Minneapolis and drove all the way through Wisconsin without stopping.

Then you should have known how millennials hate the idea of winners and losers.

By the way, you're not missing anything by staying away from Jersey. :puke:

Hank 02-23-2017 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thaskalos (Post 2124395)
The gospels of the NT were all written anonymously, and nothing in them identifies, in ANY way, who the authors were...or with which other "gospel authors" these anonymous writers "associated".

Oddly enough...the author of the "Gospel of Thomas" fully identifies himself in the text as "Thomas O Didymos", who was "Doubting" Thomas...an acknowledged disciple of Jesus. But that gospel, although written by an authentic Jesus disciple, did not please the Church...so, it was despised and subsequently rejected. As a result, the "anonymous gospels" were accepted as "fact"...while the text written by the legitimate disciple was called "heretical"...and thrown away. Truth is indeed stranger than fiction. :faint:

Buried in desert sands for 2000 years the Gospel of Thomas proclaims.......

"Know what is in front of your face, and what is hidden from you will be disclosed to you.
For there is nothing hidden that will not be revealed. And there is nothing buried that will not be raised."

And as you know my friend, the contents of this Gospel validates much of what one George Ivanovich Gurdjieff taught.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lE5MFF2UNB4

Actor 02-23-2017 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boxcar (Post 2124951)
Where have you been?

I forgot to mention that I've been to Hell. It's in Michigan. :coffee:

Actor 02-23-2017 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boxcar (Post 2125208)
Then you should have known how millennials hate the idea of winners and losers.

What are millennials?

Quote:

Originally Posted by boxcar (Post 2125208)
By the way, you're not missing anything by staying away from Jersey.

Same for Idaho and Iowa. Just my opinion.

What's this got to do with religion?

boxcar 02-23-2017 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Actor (Post 2125410)
I forgot to mention that I've been to Hell. It's in Michigan. :coffee:

Trust me: You haven't. A foretaste perhaps, but not the real thing.

Actor 02-23-2017 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boxcar (Post 2125426)
Trust me: You haven't. A foretaste perhaps, but not the real thing.

Have you been there?

TJDave 02-23-2017 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Actor (Post 2125410)
I forgot to mention that I've been to Hell. It's in Michigan. :coffee:

I know you're going to hell.

I just hope we can have a beer...

And it's cold.

Actor 02-23-2017 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TJDave (Post 2125493)
I know you're going to hell.

I just hope we can have a beer...

And it's cold.

There are two bars there.

And, yes, it was cold.

Or did you mean the beer? :)

TJDave 02-23-2017 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Actor (Post 2125508)
There are two bars there.

And, yes, it was cold.

Or did you mean the beer? :)

I just know that Boxcar believes he won't be there.

That makes hell, heaven.

boxcar 02-24-2017 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Actor (Post 2125457)
Have you been there?

There are many varieties of foretastes of hell here on earth. And I've been to some of them. I posted once on this subject (perhaps before your day) on how life on this earth prefigures heaven and hell.

boxcar 02-24-2017 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TJDave (Post 2125517)
I just know that Boxcar believes he won't be there.

That makes hell, heaven.

Won't be where: The bars or hell?

VigorsTheGrey 02-24-2017 12:08 PM

..... (Oh, never mind, God already told me all I need to know right here in this book....it is called the Bible....it tells the history of these people called Hebrews and Israelites... They are God's chosen people....and about a boy that was born in a manger who grew up to become a king and went on to save everyone from themselves and this evil thing called Satan and his angels who is out to get us so that he can have company forever in a bad place called Hell....which is where you will end up if you do not believe in the little boy in the manger who grew up to become king....I could tell you more but I have to go to band camp right now....).....

Greyfox 02-24-2017 02:39 PM

Pope Tells Cafeteria Catholics
 
Pope Francis said this week:

“But to be a Catholic like him, better to be an atheist!”



https://cruxnow.com/vatican/2017/02/...g-double-life/


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