- - Religious
( http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=88142)
| boxcar |
01-04-2015 10:27 PM |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire
And Paul also said this:
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Romans 7:7-12 New American Standard Bible (NASB)]
We understand sin, doing evil through knowledge. Without knowledge there is no sin. The old knowledge was based in following the Masaic Law, the new knowledge is based in the spiritual law. The intellect must control the instincts of the flesh, which means only acting for our own benefit by doing whatever pleases us.
I know your are going to make up the fiction there had to be a law, between the first transgression and the acceptance of the Mosaic Law. If there were such a law Paul would have never said sin is not imputed or that he did not know sin until the (Mosaic) Law.
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By the way, according to you're totally off-the-wall interpretation of this passage, this would make God very unjust, since he judged the world with a Flood, even though all (except eight) apparently had no true knowledge of good or evil, apart from the Law? And he also judged Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cites long before the Law of Moses existed. More injustice with God.
God also judged Pharaoh and Egypt before the Law of Moses. So much for the righteous judgments of God, eh? |
| boxcar |
01-04-2015 10:28 PM |
Quote:
Originally Posted by thaskalos
Yeah...but Jesus also said that not even HE was good. Does that mean that Jesus placed himself on equal ground with man?
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This has been answered many times. But hey...address this question to ShowMe. Should be very interesting. Seriously. Address to him. |
| Actor |
01-04-2015 10:31 PM |
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxcar
By the way, knowledge is not an attribute of human begins since no man who comes into this world has any inherent knowledge.
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knowledge is information. Information is transmitted by DNA. That's DNA's purpose. A newly conceived human could very well have some knowledge. |
| Show Me the Wire |
01-04-2015 10:34 PM |
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxcar
No, you did not. Very sloppy of you. But don't blame me. YOU defined what man's nature was, I didn't. So, shame all over you.
Very clear. Wisdom is the practical application of knowledge. Wisdom is the practical expression of knowledge. One can be filled with all knowledge and yet never apply it or never apply it properly.
I say you're dead wrong (with the emphasis on dead!). For starters:
Gen 6:5
5 Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
NASB
The last I checked one reasons with thoughts. According to the above passage, the thoughts of the people resided in their heart.
But I know you still won't believe me, so perhaps you will believe Jesus, even though he's in the habit of contradicting himself whenever you want to make yourself look truthful.
Luke 5:22
22 But Jesus, aware of their reasonings, answered and said to them, "Why are you reasoning in your hearts?
NASB
ShowMe, there are unbelieving skeptics in this thread who know and understand scripture better than you! Why do you persist with me? Are you a masochist? You want to use your ignorance against yourself to make yourself look bad? You have a secret "death wish"? Or perhaps, since you're a RC, a martyr's complex?
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Do you interpret heart literally or figuratively? Are you saying the physical organ actually contains man's intangible qualities?
Why don't you want me to continue? Am I a burr under your security blanket? I am not a masochist, don't worry you are not making me look bad. I have a wish that you take off your blinders and think outside your nominalist box.
Just like you should understand that having knowledge of zebras, does not change your nature into a zebra. The same logic applies to the knowledge of good and evil, which made man like God, but not into God. |
| Show Me the Wire |
01-04-2015 10:42 PM |
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxcar
By the way, according to you're totally off-the-wall interpretation of this passage, this would make God very unjust, since he judged the world with a Flood, even though all (except eight) apparently had no true knowledge of good or evil, apart from the Law? And he also judged Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cites long before the Law of Moses existed. More injustice with God.
God also judged Pharaoh and Egypt before the Law of Moses. So much for the righteous judgments of God, eh?
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So you disagree with the Apostle? |
| boxcar |
01-04-2015 10:42 PM |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire
Again, man has a nature. Never denied that man has a nature. You keep on insisting that because, I said man in his nature has knowledge, that some how I am denying that man has a nature.
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Yes, you have. You have categorically denied that man has a moral nature. By doing, this you deny that man IS a moral being. You deny that morality is part of man's essence -- as much as personality and rationality is part of man essence -- what he is. You reduce man to pure intellect or reason. Period. But not even God is pure intellect; God is far more than that. and God did create man in his image and likeness.
Since you deny this, you need to explain to us how no mere mortal could not not sin. You need to explain how all men through the ages (save for Jesus Christ) have been and are sinners.
Also, according to your understanding of man's nature, I take it that Jesus didn't have a moral nature either? |
| boxcar |
01-04-2015 10:44 PM |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire
So you disagree with the Apostle?
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I agree with your interpretation as much as you disagree with the apostle when he said: "we were formerly children of wrath by nature, even as the rest." |
| Show Me the Wire |
01-04-2015 10:47 PM |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Actor
knowledge is information. Information is transmitted by DNA. That's DNA's purpose. A newly conceived human could very well have some knowledge.
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Don't you understand, Actor, only guilt and culpability are transferred via DNA :bang: :bang:
If you acquire knowledge of any essence, your nature automatically becomes that essence. :bang: :bang: |
| boxcar |
01-04-2015 10:50 PM |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire
Do you interpret heart literally or figuratively? Are you saying the physical organ actually contains man's intangible qualities?
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I understand "heart" the same way Jesus did. What about you? You think he was talking about the organ that pumps blood, do you? Is that were all the faculties of man reside? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Quote:
Why don't you want me to continue? Am I a burr under your security blanket? I am not a masochist, don't worry you are not making me look bad. I have a wish that you take off your blinders and think outside your nominalist box.
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Quit flattering yourself. The only thing that never ceases to amaze me is that for a professing Christian how little of scripture you really know and understand.
Quote:
Just like you should understand that having knowledge of zebras, does not change your nature into a zebra. The same logic applies to the knowledge of good and evil, which made man like God, but not into God.
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How did all men acquire this knowledge of good and evil? It seem to me that since all knowledge is acquired that someone must have taught you what is evil and how to do it. Who taught you the knowledge of evil? |
| boxcar |
01-04-2015 10:52 PM |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire
Don't you understand, Actor, only guilt and culpability are transferred via DNA :bang: :bang:
If you acquire knowledge of any essence, your nature automatically becomes that essence. :bang: :bang:
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What in the the world are you talking about? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: |
| boxcar |
01-04-2015 10:54 PM |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Actor
knowledge is information. Information is transmitted by DNA. That's DNA's purpose. A newly conceived human could very well have some knowledge.
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Of what? His or her name? Who its parents are? The birth date? Self-awareness? |
| boxcar |
01-04-2015 10:55 PM |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire
Don't you understand, Actor, only guilt and culpability are transferred via DNA :bang: :bang:
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Whose guilt and why? Has the guilt gene been isolated and identified? |
| Show Me the Wire |
01-04-2015 11:04 PM |
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxcar
I agree with your interpretation as much as you disagree with the apostle when he said: "we were formerly children of wrath by nature, even as the rest."
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I don't disagree with the Apostle. I disagree with your interpretations. We were children of wrath due to our nature allowing us to have knowledge. Adam acquired the knowledge of good and evil. As Actor pointed out knowledge can be transferred via DNA. Man's misuse of the knowledge made us children of wrath, as the ability to acquire and use knowledge is in our nature.
From Adam we inherent the ability to have and use knowledge, especially the knowledge of good and evil. If you have knowledge of fire, does your nature turn into fire, because you use your knowledge to heat or cook with fire? Nor does your human nature turn into a zebra nature, once you acquire knowledge regarding zebras.
We only inhereit the ability to have and use knowledge, not the effect of changing automatically into whatever essence we acquire knowledge about. If we did, this would be a very interesting world. |
| Show Me the Wire |
01-04-2015 11:29 PM |
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxcar
I understand "heart" the same way Jesus did. What about you? You think he was talking about the organ that pumps blood, do you? Is that were all the faculties of man reside? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Quit flattering yourself. The only thing that never ceases to amaze me is that for a professing Christian how little of scripture you really know and understand.
How did all men acquire this knowledge of good and evil? It seem to me that since all knowledge is acquired that someone must have taught you what is evil and how to do it. Who taught you the knowledge of evil?
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How did Jesus understand the heart? You never said.
I only know little Scripture according to you. You are not the judge, especially since I can go back and quote some old posts where you recanted your interpretations, regarding that the devil owns everyone born into this world lock, stock and barrel, all sin can only be forgiven through blood and a few more challenges you posed to me
Besides no other participant in this thread has asked me to stop posting. I recall many requests asking you to stop. In your mind, that is because they love the dark and not the light :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang:
Jesus taught me about good and evil. How about you? The rest of your thought has already been answered.
Why don't you try automatically having your nature change by acquiring knowledge about another essence. Get back to us and tell us how it works. |
| Actor |
01-05-2015 12:24 AM |
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxcar
Of what? His or her name? Who its parents are? The birth date? Self-awareness?
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Self awareness, certainly.
As to what else, who knows? The capacity is there. We need a grant to do some research! :ThmbUp: |
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