- - Religious
( http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=88142)
| Dave Schwartz |
06-12-2012 10:47 PM |
TJDave,
I am not the answer man.
Perhaps you want to riddle someone else.
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| boxcar |
06-12-2012 11:28 PM |
Quote:
Originally Posted by TJDave
Very Christian of you.
Yes, but to attribute human frailty?
Not the best sales approach I would think.
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Human "frailty" or human "characteristic"? The bible is filled with anthropomorphisms to, ironically, help our finite (frail) minds to understand the infinite mind of God. If God did not speak to us in such terms, we would know nothing at all about him. But because He loves us, he has condescended to our level to help us gain an understanding of his mind.
For example, the psalms are loaded with prayers with the writer cries out to God to remember him in this situation, or that situation, etc., as if God is going to forget? But what such prayers do are remind us of God's faithfulness. God is very pleased and honored when his saints pray his promises back to him because that speaks to our faith in his word.
When I see a rainbow in the sky, I almost automatically (without even consciously thinking about it) praise God or bless him for his faithfulness in keeping his covenant promise that he made with Noah. I thank Him for remembering his promise and for keeping covenant.
Boxcar |
| boxcar |
06-12-2012 11:32 PM |
Quote:
Originally Posted by hcap
What an idiot. What does that mean? How is discovering truth from what one believes in NOT a reason to give it credence? I posted something from the Tao.
Tao Te Ching: Chapter 11
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So, "Tao Te Ching" is your god? Is he/she/it/them eternal? Or a carved idol of someone's imagination? Just askin'...
Boxcar |
| Light |
06-12-2012 11:46 PM |
Boxcar
I am wondering what your point is in this mega thread. Also what do you classify yourself religiously as (if you do)?
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| boxcar |
06-12-2012 11:59 PM |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Schwartz
Well, Boxcar, I would say that we have reached the point of diminishing returns in further discussion between us.
I have tried to say this to you in many ways - I will try one more time and then be finished.
I see myself as a servant of God; one who is constantly on alert for an indication from God that I should take action. And I DO get such indications. That is precisely how and why I got into this thread to begin with.
I am sure that you, too, see yourself as a servant of God as well. At no point do I doubt your love of or dedication to God. However, you appear to be more of a "supervisor" in God's workforce; one who decides what God wants done and takes action to get it done.
I doubt that we could ever come to a meeting of the minds on our respective beliefs.
Perhaps I would ask a simple question here - Despite all of your knowledge, do you think that anyone in this thread is prepared to make change in their beliefs because of what and how you post?
If not, then a second question... Why do you continue?
Personally, I hope that someone asks for explanations - about anything. I do not have anywhere near the bible knowledge that you have. That is obvious. But what I do have is an understanding of what God wants from us. (No, I do not actually have ALL the answers, but I probably have a better grasp than most.)
I do not hold this up as a trophy. It is not something that is to be attained to. I received this understanding because I was fortunate enough to have wonderful spiritual parents to guide me through the process. Most Christians do not get this; they should, but they don't.
Instead, most are taught your way. They learn that "all the answers are in the book." Sure they are. But, dang, they can be hard to get out! And it can take a lifetime to do so.
Instead, I was taught from a very young age (as a Christian; I was actually 45 years old) that what matters most is the relationship. I was taught that God is the perfect father. I don't think anyone would argue with that description of Him, but most do not consider what that means.
My experience is that most Christians go through life with a feeling of impending doom hanging over their heads. They believe that God is just waiting for them to commit a sin that justifies Him destroying their lives.
Nothing could be farther from the truth.
Most of us here are or have been parents. Did you lie awake at night planning the destruction of your children if that got one more bad grade or broke curfew one more time? Of course not.
This is not to say that there are no consequences for our actions and mis-deeds. There certainly are. But God does not punish; He disciplines. There is a difference. He simply does not plot or look forward to the destruction of his children.
In essence, the biggest difference between you and I appears to be that I believe God to be a benevolent and loving God and Father. What you preach is far different. Perhaps you do believe that God is loving, but it is not what you preach.
Finally, on the topic of preaching. That has its place, but this isn't it. You have an audience here that has asked for discourse. Instead, you gave them pompous lectures full of big words that was outside of their understanding (at least most).
How many of the people here do you suppose know that "sanctification" is just another way of saying "spiritual maturity?"
Why didn't you use a phrase that the audience could understand?
If you are speaking to lay people (of which I am one) why does someone with your level of knowledge not make it as simple as possible for us to understand?
The world is full of Christians who draw their biblical knowledge as a dagger to pierce the heart of anyone who dares challenge them. This kind of Christian is a hindrance to Christ, despite the fact that they may have great love for Him.
I will attempt to be finished with our discourse. I will not be drawn out to "do battle" with you. I have said what I felt called to say.
LOL - I actually had the urge to say, "Go in peace." That would have been me being corny. (I don't even have a robe or a conical hat.)
Praising Him,
Dave Schwartz
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You're right. I think we have both said our peace, and after reading your #1513 (and picking myself up off the floor), I am quite sure that our respective theology is miles apart.
And once the discussion degenerates into inane, meaningless question about why I would use the theological term "sanctification" when no one here would understand (while you conveniently forget that earlier you used the phrase "4.5 point Calvinist" as though that was a common household subject), then I think it's time to end this in a friendly manner and move on.
But I will be "corny" and sign off with this Pauline doxology and hope you will accept in the spirit in which it is intended:
1 Thess 5:23-24
23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 Faithful is He who calls you, and He also will bring it to pass.
NASB
Take care, David, and keep vigilant. We're living in very evil times and the Church is sinking deeper into apostasy day by day -- as it must be, of course, before the Lord returns.
Boxcar |
| boxcar |
06-13-2012 12:31 AM |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Light
Boxcar
I am wondering what your point is in this mega thread. Also what do you classify yourself religiously as (if you do)?
|
The thread has a life of its own, does it not? It's like the wind. It blows where it wants to. Sometimes this thread represents barely a mid summer night's breeze, while at other times it's on the verge of hurricane-force winds.
Have you noticed, though, that I didn't start this thread? Talk about irony! :D
I like the existence of this thread because it gives me a place to move posts that have been in the past classified as hijacking material on other threads.
Or sometimes I post something that has captured my interest that deals with the Church or Christians in general that have made the news for one reason or another, e.g. the Catholic Church suing the Government over the contraception issue, etc.
Of course, the world is filled with skeptics and Christ-haters (antichrists), so this place also gives such people an outlet to bash the bible, Christ, the Church, Evangelicals like myself, etc. Without doubt the bible is the most discussed, most controversial, most sold and most translated book on the planet. And there is a reason for all this controversy because only God's people, with one exception, are capable of understanding spiritual truth, which is why I have often said that the scriptures are God love letter to his people. To all others, the bible might as well be written in ancient hieroglyphics. (The exception is with honest truth seekers who approach the bible on God's terms, e.g. with humility and prayerfulness.)
I hold to the Reformed Traditions of the Christian Faith, e.g. Calvinism (a/k/a Doctrines of Grace), New Covenant Theology (to which most Reformed churches do not subscribe) and my Eschatology is a hybrid in that I hold to Partial Preterism and Amillennialism. Aren't you sorry that you asked now that you're thoroughly confused? :D
Boxcar |
| boxcar |
06-13-2012 12:38 AM |
Quote:
Originally Posted by TJDave
Boxcar is proof there is no God.
Otherwise, he'd be slapped silly.
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You have it all backwards, as usual. Boxcar is the most glorious trophy of God's Grace because I, like Paul, am chief of all sinners. I am living proof that if God can save a wretch me, he can really save anyone.
Boxcar |
| Light |
06-13-2012 12:38 AM |
Good luck Boxcar.
I'll conclude with a quote from an Eagles song:
So often times it happens that we live our lives in chains And we never even know we have the key
This is the state of mankind. The key is:
Whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive. MATT. 21:22.
What things so ever ye desire, when ye pray believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them. MARK 11:24.
God is within you.
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| boxcar |
06-13-2012 12:44 AM |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Light
Good luck Boxcar.
I'll conclude with a quote from an Eagles song:
So often times it happens that we live our lives in chains And we never even know we have the key
This is the state of mankind. The key is:
Whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive. MATT. 21:22.
What things so ever ye desire, when ye pray believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them. MARK 11:24.
God is within you.
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Ahh...but the even bigger key is understanding that when we pray, we want to pray according to God's will. Praying outside of his revealed will profit us nothing. Remember how the Lord's prayer goes toward the beginning -- "...thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven..."?
Boxcar
Boxcar |
| elysiantraveller |
06-13-2012 12:45 AM |
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxcar
I hold to the Reformed Traditions of the Christian Faith, e.g. Calvinism (a/k/a Doctrines of Grace), New Covenant Theology (to which most Reformed churches do not subscribe) and my Eschatology is a hybrid in that I hold to Partial Preterism and Amillennialism. Aren't you sorry that you asked now that you're thoroughly confused? :D
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How do you decide to follow amillenialism but then claim literal translations superior throughout the bulk of texts? |
| boxcar |
06-13-2012 10:53 AM |
Quote:
Originally Posted by elysiantraveller
How do you decide to follow amillenialism but then claim literal translations superior throughout the bulk of texts?
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Easy. I never made such a claim. That's a stereotype that the Hcap's of the world made about me.
Boxcar |
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxcar
Easy. I never made such a claim. That's a stereotype that the Hcap's of the world made about me.
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Good question for you box. You turn on and off when things should be "as is" and when they shouldn't. You take the Genesis account and the Flood and many other things literally --until people point out events as "is" are impossible then you often do a M Jackson style "Moon Walk"
Yes Revelations taken literally is bonkers. I am glad that you reject it "as is", yet it doesn't explain taking the Flood "as is" I am not stereotyping you, you do a pretty neat job all by yourself. |
| boxcar |
06-13-2012 03:41 PM |
Quote:
Originally Posted by hcap
Good question for you box. You turn on and off when things should be "as is" and when they shouldn't. You take the Genesis account and the Flood and many other things literally --until people point out events as "is" are impossible then you often do a M Jackson style "Moon Walk"
Yes Revelations taken literally is bonkers. I am glad that you reject it "as is", yet it doesn't explain taking the Flood "as is" I am not stereotyping you, you do a pretty neat job all by yourself.
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:sleeping: :sleeping: Context. Context. Context determines largely how any given passage should be interpreted. Live it. Love it. Learn it.
Boxcar |
What context determines the Flood to be taken as is? And to be true? Whether or not you have taken your meds? Maybe you look out your window and see a flying saucer landing?
Or whether not as Scrooge says "You may be an undigested bit of beef, a blot of mustard, a crumb of cheese, a fragment of underdone potato. There's more of gravy than of grave about you, whatever you are!"
- Charles Dickens, A Christmas Carol
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| boxcar |
06-13-2012 05:59 PM |
Quote:
Originally Posted by hcap
What context determines the Flood to be taken as is?
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The context of scripture.
It's internally consistent with all the rest of scripture. And the earliest interpreters of the OT (Jesus and his Apostles) also believed it was true.
Boxcar |
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