So, then, you should be very grateful to God for not putting the hit on them "on that day". I mean...where would you be?

And while you're talking about forgetting things -- I'm still waiting for you to tell me why your unknown or unknowable god is worth my time of day. Have you forgotten?

Boxcar

I didn't say that I didn't agree with your interpretation of the Scriptures. What I said was that your presentation is self righteous and will automatically bring people to be self-defensive. You can say what you need to say in a loving kind manner (in the way Jesus did) or you can say the same thing and sound like a pharisee.

You seem like a very intelligent person, but you lack compassion. Jesus came to seek and save the lost, not ridicule and talk down to. Jesus himself was scorned and mistreated, called names, beaten and killed. But even when he was angry, he did not speak down to them. Even on the cross He asked for His father to be merciful to those who had caused his death. (side note: Do you think he meant the Jews? Do you think he meant the Romans? "Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do" Luke 23:24 I believe, that ultimately, He was referring to you and me. Because while it was the Jews who turned Jesus in, and the Roman's who nailed him to the cross. If it were not for humanity, he would not have needed to die.)

I don't want to get into a pissing match with you. I just want to tell you, that if you want people to hear the Word, you need to get out of their throats and sit down and talk to them. Are they going to be unreceptive? YEP! Love them and do not condemn them, lead them. It is not our job to condemn them. It's God's. Nor is it our job to save them, It's God's. OUR JOB is to share Christ with them.

Take it or leave it. As my mama used to say, You can get more bees with honey than you can with vinegar, but BS will always attract flys.

I would suggest to all reading this thread, that while Boxcar may have more Biblical knowledge, this person has a far better understanding of God (and what he wants from us).

:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:


Respectfully,
Dave Schwartz

There is nothing wrong with wealth itself,but your attachment to it can capture your ego and make you blind to God and your fellow man as is clearly demonstrated every day with people in power. Thus the saying "Be in this world but not of it". Those who have more to lose such as rich folks will naturally have a harder time "letting go and letting God".

It relates to this quote from the Bible: What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul?

What a schmuck! I did at least twice.

You're a liar. You never provided an answer to why I should give some unknown or unknowable god my time of day. How you left off was that you switched from your concept of god to truth. A typical way you deflect tough questions.

Boxcar

Very many idols can "capture your ego" -- not just wealth. I just don't see an "ego" teaching in here and that's because of our respective views of what the soul or spirit of man consists. However, the wealthy have it especially hard with respect to spiritual truth because so many of them love their money, which in turn is the root of all evil.

Boxcar

Methinks that Jesus would not give any of the participating skeptics on this thread a second look due to his teaching in Mat 7:6. They (with the exception of Mr. Fox) do not have the disposition of of the "good soil" talked about in the parable of the soils in Lk 8:3ff. either. I have been exceedingly patient with them. I have treated them gentler than John the Baptist and Jesus treated the Pharisees. But when I perceive that someone is dishonest with me, then I will call them on that, lest they think that they are wise in their own eyes (Prov 26:5).

But you did tell me earlier that you thought I was so presumptive for presuming to know God's intentions, did you not? But why would you say that? Are we not supposed to make logical and reasonable inferences from scripture. For example, if God in eternity "past" predetermined to call out and save a people for himself, does not eternity predate what happened in the Garden when our first parents fell? Therefore, it is very reasonable to infer from a passage like Rom 8:29,30 that God always intended for Adam and Eve to fulfill the procreation mandate that he gave to them prior to the Fall.

Boxcar

And, David, pray tell...from where did this person get his "far better understanding of God", do you suppose?

Boxcar

"Her".... :)

Okay, I will play a round or two with you.

Let me tell you where this person DID NOT get her knowledge:

She did not get her knowledge from someone who spouted scripture at her as you have done to the people in this thread.

You are arguing academically.

You are holding up the Bible as proof to people who do not recognize the Bible as having the value that you or I see in it.

I am sure that you have heard people say that God meets you where you are. Well, you are DEMANDING that the non-believer meet you in the Bible - a place that is very foreign to them.

In addition, your manner is very off-putting in that you appear to be armed for a battle. Now, certainly Christ did battle with words at times... but he did not do battle with people He was trying to bring in as followers/believers.

I suggest to you that your methods are absolutely counter-productive to ever bringing anyone to Christ.

I further suggest that, while you may see yourself as "doing God's work," in reality, you are a huge hindrance to His plans, at least if those plans include making new believers.

In addition, you paint a very inaccurate picture of the loving God that I know (and the one who is far more faithful to me than I am to Him). The picture that you paint is very unpleasant. I mean, the picture you paint is of a vengeful, doomsday kind of God, instead of a loving, perfect parent-type of God as I know Him to be.

Considering the portrait you have drawn, why would anyone in their right mind sign up for the God program at all?

This whole if-you-came-away-from-church-without-guilt-your-preacher-isn't-doing-his-job-thing is just not as it was meant to be. That is just not the Father that I know and have in my life.

Neither is it the Father that I would encourage people to follow.


I close with the question I asked you before: "Where is the love in your message?" I don't mean, where are the Bible quotes ABOUT love. I mean where is the love in your voice and your heart?


Regards,
Dave Schwartz

Hey Dave...

Have you ever given thought to teaching religion instead of teaching handicapping?

There is more money in religion, you know...

In any case...this is a great post...and i agree with every word. :ThmbUp:

It's that time of the week again.....
 

LOL - Thank you, Thaskalos.

Actually, I DO teach but certainly not in the manner set in this thread.

What we teach is "discipleship." That is, we mentor.
(Editor's note: This is not meant to indicate that if one looked up "model Christian" in the dictionary one would find Dave's picture. LOL)


We are part of a program that provides "spiritual parenting" to Christians. My wife and I have spiritual parents; a wonderful couple through whom God has changed our lives beyond belief. In turn, we have spiritual children and even spiritual grandchildren.

Our belief is that every Christian should be taken by the hand and helped through the learning process. It is, of course, Bible-based, but the goal is not to teach the Bible. Rather the goal is to teach understanding of what the Bible intended us to learn: what the "normal" Christian life should look like.
(editor's note: DO not confuse "normal" with "average" or "usual.")


Regards,
Dave Schwartz

PS: I welcome conversation on this topic from anyone truly interested in pursuing it, either publicly or privately. Please do not send me a message asking for "proof" of God's existence. I leave that up to God.

Your observation of boxcar's teaching style here reminds me of the following:

"Father O'Seamus, in great form at the pulpit the other night in the church: he told us the end of the world is near, and we must be prepared. He said,

"Stand up, all those that want to go to heaven."
Of course, we all stood up right away. And he said,
"Stand up, all those that want to go to hell."
Of course, nobody stood up, except Muldoon in the middle of the church. He said,
"Muldoon, do you want to go to hell?"
Muldoon replied:
"No, father. I didn't like to see you standing there by yourself."