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-   -   And then you wonder WHY. (http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=137464)

Hank 04-02-2017 10:35 AM

And then you wonder WHY.
 
Well well well.



woodtoo 04-02-2017 11:15 AM

Point Not Taken.

Clocker 04-02-2017 11:20 AM

Wonder why what? Wonder why that "bill of rights" isn't in the Constitution?

It's simple. Not even FDR proposed that it should be an amendment. It was just another political speech arguing for a bigger role for the federal government, more entitlement programs and more redistribution of wealth.

Tom 04-02-2017 12:39 PM

Wonder what Hank is ever talking about?
Or why he bothers talking about it.
Or wonder who he is talking to?

VigorsTheGrey 04-02-2017 12:54 PM

Who does all the oil under the ground belong to? Should not it belong to all of earth's people? Why should private corporations be the only ones allowed to profit from its extractions and use....same with other minerals and natural resources...

davew 04-02-2017 12:55 PM

a call for revolution


Clocker 04-02-2017 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VigorsTheGrey (Post 2146915)
Who does all the oil under the ground belong to? Should not it belong to all of earth's people?

The oil under the ground belongs to whoever owns the ground. What claims would anyone else have to it?

Quote:

Why should private corporations be the only ones allowed to profit from its extractions and use....same with other minerals and natural resources...
They are not the only ones that profit. They pay the owners, private or public, for the right to drill. And they take the risk of losing their investment. It's called free market capitalism.

woodtoo 04-02-2017 01:06 PM

The Left have been totally off the rails since Hillarys' fail. There has been no acceptance at all, resist they much. Idjits.

VigorsTheGrey 04-02-2017 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clocker (Post 2146931)
The oil under the ground belongs to whoever owns the ground. What claims would anyone else have to it?

They are not the only ones that profit. They pay the owners, private or public, for the right to drill. And they take the risk of losing their investment. It's called free market capitalism.

So all the Old Growth Redwood trees "belong" to human owners that raze whole tracks of them for profit....? Don't the trees have a "right" to live in peace as well....? I would never insist that a 500 year old tree is somehow "mine" to do with as I please....

Clocker 04-02-2017 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VigorsTheGrey (Post 2146979)
So all the Old Growth Redwood trees "belong" to human owners that raze whole tracks of them for profit....?

How many of those trees are on private property?

Quote:

Don't the trees have a "right" to live in peace as well....? I would never insist that a 500 year old tree is somehow "mine" to do with as I please....
I would insist that a tree on my property is mine to do with as I please. What is the age of consent for a tree, the point at which it has rights? If you have a seedling and don't plant it, is that the moral equivalent of abortion? :D

Show Me the Wire 04-02-2017 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clocker (Post 2146994)
How many of those trees are on private property?

I would insist that a tree on my property is mine to do with as I please. What is the age of consent for a tree, the point at which it has rights? If you have a seedling and don't plant it, is that the moral equivalent of abortion? :D

You are not that far off about moral equivalence.

Quote:

We live in truly surreal times. In an age when all human beings still do not have access to human rights—and when some of the world’s foremost bioethicists declare that the unborn and cognitively disabled are not persons—radical environmentalists and others are agitating to grant “rights” to objects in nature.

In the latest phase of this descent into metaphysical madness, two rivers have been declared to be legal “persons” endowed with human-style rights. In New Zealand, the Whanganui River was granted the same legal rights as a human being. The reason? The Maori tribe considers the river sacred and an “ancestor.”

Religion was also why an Indian court declared the Ganges River, considered sacred in the Hindu faith, to be a “person.”
[emphasis added]

Quote:

[T]he rights of ecosystems and natural communities are enforceable independently of the rights of people who use them. That means that people within a community could step “into the shoes” of a mountain, stream, or forest ecosystem, and advocate for the rights of those natural communities. It calls for a system of jurisprudence in which those ecosystems are actually “seen” in court. Damages are assessed according to the costs of restoring the ecosystem to its pre-damaged state.
https://www.firstthings.com/web-excl...-to-be-persons

johnhannibalsmith 04-02-2017 02:16 PM

For the record, I killed the damn Cottonwood in self-defense after it assaulted me with dead branches while I was minding my own business beneath it in a chair with a Parliament Light.

Clocker 04-02-2017 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire (Post 2146999)
In the latest phase of this descent into metaphysical madness, two rivers have been declared to be legal “persons” endowed with human-style rights. In New Zealand, the Whanganui River was granted the same legal rights as a human being. The reason? The Maori tribe considers the river sacred and an “ancestor.”

But according to Heraclitus, it is not the same river any more, so their claim to ancestry is invalid. :cool:

VigorsTheGrey 04-02-2017 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clocker (Post 2146994)
How many of those trees are on private property?

I would insist that a tree on my property is mine to do with as I please. What is the age of consent for a tree, the point at which it has rights? If you have a seedling and don't plant it, is that the moral equivalent of abortion? :D


Indeed, rights are a quagmire....they cannot be invoked for one and not for another... If done so...one is being speciesIST....

Clocker 04-02-2017 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VigorsTheGrey (Post 2147046)
Indeed, rights are a quagmire....they cannot be invoked for one and not for another... If done so...one is being speciesIST....

It is only a quagmire if you opt to make it one. Only humans have rights under our laws. Everything else is property under law.

If you think that the Giant Redwoods have rights, then you must believe that ownership of them constitutes slavery. Perhaps you should solicit contributions and lobby for Redwood Emancipation. I'm sure there are a lot of tree huggers out there who would be very happy to participate. :p


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