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-   -   Trump signs tariffs (http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=143679)

elysiantraveller 03-11-2018 11:05 AM

.
Quote:

Originally Posted by classhandicapper (Post 2288815)
The free trade advocates remind me of that scene from Animal House.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdFLPn30dvQ

After decades of getting our clock cleaned, rather than observing and admitting to reality they stick to fully discredited theory. It has to be the greatest case of cognitive bias in all human history. To be clear, I was guilty of it for about 20+ years also even as the evidence I was wrong first started trickling in. But it's obvious now.

Apparently years ago, the smartest and most honest guy in the room was Ross Perot.

What evidence of "getting our clock cleaned"?

Massive levels of consumption? High standards of living? Highest manufacturing output in history? Cheap goods? $18 Trillion GDP? Full employment?

You keep saying this and others but I've seen no evidence of the global trade economy kicking our ass...

fast4522 03-11-2018 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inner Dirt (Post 2287815)
The anti tariff people act like foreign countries don't put tariffs on USA goods and let American made items flow into their country with ease.

If a country puts a 30% duty on our cars entering their country it is just fair we put 30% on them, the cost of access to our economy.

Clocker 03-11-2018 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fast4522 (Post 2288839)
If a country puts a 30% duty on our cars entering their country it is just fair we put 30% on them, the cost of access to our economy.

You aren't putting the cost "on them", you are putting it on the consumers in this country.

fast4522 03-11-2018 12:40 PM

Who are you trying to shit, cars alone will bring Germany to its knees, I could care less that you have to pay 30% more for your BMW. Everyone living paycheck to paycheck will laugh at you.

fast4522 03-11-2018 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller (Post 2288818)
.

What evidence of "getting our clock cleaned"?

Massive levels of consumption? High standards of living? Highest manufacturing output in history? Cheap goods? $18 Trillion GDP? Full employment?

You keep saying this and others but I've seen no evidence of the global trade economy kicking our ass...

This is going to disrupt Europe big time, forget your numbers because when we reach Y2K numbers and far exceed that period of time it will be at the expense of everyone else. Just as the last 30 years has been at our expense. This is just the very begining and you full well know it.

Clocker 03-11-2018 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fast4522 (Post 2288843)
Who are you trying to shit, cars alone will bring Germany to its knees, I could less that you have to pay 30% more for your BMW. Everyone living paycheck to paycheck will laugh at you.

If the prices on imported cars are increased by tariffs, do you really believe that American car companies would not raise their prices?

fast4522 03-11-2018 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clocker (Post 2288849)
If the prices on imported cars are increased by tariffs, do you really believe that American car companies would not raise their prices?

I think American car manufacturers would have the best years ever recorded. Our economy will explode with jobs, Trump will become unbeatable. Every positive record will be shattered, socialism abroad will go into a tailspin that it can never recover from.

Clocker 03-11-2018 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fast4522 (Post 2288854)
I think American car manufacturers would have the best years ever recorded. Our economy will explode with jobs, Trump will become unbeatable. Every positive record will be shattered, socialism abroad will go into a tailspin that it can never recover from.

You completely avoided the question, so let me repeat it.

If the prices on imported cars are increased by tariffs, do you really believe that American car companies would not raise their prices?

classhandicapper 03-11-2018 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller (Post 2288818)
.

What evidence of "getting our clock cleaned"?

Massive levels of consumption? High standards of living? Highest manufacturing output in history? Cheap goods? $18 Trillion GDP? Full employment?

You keep saying this and others but I've seen no evidence of the global trade economy kicking our ass...

When you are running consistent huge trade deficits you are losing.

You are getting depreciating goods. They are getting dollars which they use to buy US stocks, bonds, and real estate. The income from the government bonds comes out of our tax dollars and since they control the sale and purchase of trillions dollars of US bonds, they have influence over our interest rates and thus have political clout in the US also.

When you USED to have a vibrant middle class and it is evaporating because the jobs to produce goods have moved overseas, your are losing.

But hey, some of us bought blue chips stocks in the 80s and get cheaper goods at Walmarts so everything must be great.

fast4522 03-11-2018 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clocker (Post 2288858)
You completely avoided the question, so let me repeat it.

If the prices on imported cars are increased by tariffs, do you really believe that American car companies would not raise their prices?

I think we would enter uncharted territory, our country would see the expansion of these United States uncomfortable to some but higher wages and prices. Ross Perot might then talk of the sucking sound heard in Europe being deafening.

johnhannibalsmith 03-11-2018 01:19 PM

:lol::lol:

And to think that PA thought that it was poor old Zilzal that was a poorly tuned AI program designed to stump you with silliness.

elysiantraveller 03-11-2018 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by classhandicapper (Post 2288860)
When you are running consistent huge trade deficits you are losing.

I'll ignore the rest since I asked for evidence and its just the standard Trump/Protectionism trope.

And I'll repeat:

- $18 Trillion GDP
- Cheap Goods
- Full Employment
- Highest Manufacturing Production in History
- Highest Levels of Consumption (Globally)
- High standard of living
- Relatively Low Cost of Living (Lower than Germany, France, UK, Sweden, Finland, Japan, Australia, South Korea, you know all those countries this targets)

Getting out "clocks cleaned" doesn't seem so bad. :rolleyes:

Grab your Friedman... we're rich... rich people spend more money... spending more money means trade deficits...

Clocker 03-11-2018 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnhannibalsmith (Post 2288862)
:lol::lol:

And to think that PA thought that it was poor old Zilzal that was a poorly tuned AI program designed to stump you with silliness.

The spirit of Prof. Irwin Corey lives on. :p

woodtoo 03-11-2018 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller (Post 2288877)
I'll ignore the rest since I asked for evidence and its just the standard Trump/Protectionism trope.

And I'll repeat:

- $18 Trillion GDP
- Cheap Goods
- Full Employment
- Highest Manufacturing Production in History
- Highest Levels of Consumption (Globally)
- High standard of living
- Relatively Low Cost of Living (Lower than Germany, France, UK, Sweden, Finland, Japan, Australia, South Korea, you know all those countries this targets)

Getting out "clocks cleaned" doesn't seem so bad. :rolleyes:

Grab your Friedman... we're rich... rich people spend more money... spending more money means trade deficits...

Do you know who a $50 billion trade deficit favors? It is not on your list.

elysiantraveller 03-11-2018 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woodtoo (Post 2288959)
Do you know who a $50 billion trade deficit favors? It is not on your list.

Everyone.


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