This is turned out to be quite a thread for "harness racing", all stemming from a "turf" question....heehee

Little by little the truth is becoming manifest....There were many well taken points that have been made, imo.....

I still believe the "chief" underlying cause of the decline of harness-racing (in fact of all racing), is there are "too many venues" and "too many carded races" at each of those places, going on "simultaneously"....

It seems that "drugs" are the latest cause of the the causes, that have been mentioned....I believe that too, as well....

The problem with the shortage of "quality" horses is that I firmly believe that the tracks are "afraid" to make a bigger thing out of the "drug" issue, for two reasons in particular....

1...They are in fear of losing what is left of the dwindling pool of available horses....

2...The are also in fear of making a bigger issue of it, as the public's conception, whether founded or unfounded, would further erode the fan base as it stands now....

Unless the tracks get together and stand united with the current "state of the sport" being what it is, and try to remedy and keep what is still salvageable, then the end is pretty near I fear....Share the wealth "racetracks" !!!!!

And, as for "harness turf-racing", the sport is not suffering from a lack of "it"..

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I think another way to create more competitive fields (more bunched up finishes vs. many runaway winners), is to simply manicure the tracks to to be less speed favoring.....both "early" and "overall"

We all know how the track is affected during and/or the next day after a "rain" or snow or freeze....Perhaps they could treat the tracks to be a less early speed favoring affair, as in weather or temperature related instances such as these....

Or maybe the turns could be "banked" better and the "turns" cut so they are more rounder, thus allowing horses that are making bids on the outside, less likely to lose so much precious ground and momentum on the corners....At some tracks the turns are almost "square" like, and many horses lose so much ground and momentum as a result.....I think that this is a "fix" that could easily be managed by any track that is serious about creating more competitive racing...And more competitive races might just save the fans and players that we still have or even bring in more fans in the process....

Other than that, I just don't know anymore.....I hope someone is listening to us....I really do....

best.

Turf Race Highest Betting of the Night
 

Just a little information. The recent turf race at the Meadowlands had the highest handle of the night in WPS and exotics even after refunding for the non-starter. Curious to know if it was the novelty of it or the thought you could get a bigger payoff. The only way to know would be to try it again.

I had posted the exotic intersest early "guy", and yes the regular bettors must have thought it could be something new from the "same old thing".You must create interest with some new ideas to get the fans motivated to gamble more money these days.This was agreat idea,work out the kinks, and start stretching the distances out for the lower class horses.

Pandy,

I was also a harness fan around the time the "modified sulky" was first introduced. If anything, I made more money when it was first introduced because it was apparent within the first week that the handful of horses that had it were moving forward significantly. So I took advantage. Afterwards, I eventually switched to T-breds full time because I liked the sport better.

I don't understand why you think the gambling profits dried up after the new sulky was introduced. If all the horses are using it, I don't see any disadvantage to the handicapping process. I think the profits are tougher to come by in both sports because the information is much better, many excellent books have been written etc... and the average price of winners is falling (in both sports). The same thing is even happening in online poker. The games are getting much tougher.

I'd like to hear your theory.

Class, I believe that is it, in a "nutshell"....It is a tougher game, and, for the reasons that you have stated....

I just wait for my spots to pop up, and they do, they "always do", it is as simple as that, for me anyway....The crowd makes mistakes, just not as often as it once was... And, I try to be around when they do...

Luckily, there are "still" some running lines and situations that the crowd is still not sure of, or cannot interpret quite so good, especially when hidden or forgotten about, and, that is what saves it for me....If not for those things, I think I would quit for good...

.....

best,

Bret Hanover
 

I have to agree with Pandy. There is no doubt that the cart has cut the time of harness races. I watched Bret Hanover 4 times in '66. In 2 of them he could have won by more. Breeding might account for one to two seconds, but the cart is the majority. What made Bret Hanover "better" than any before or after is charactor. He had a pet's instinct, an ability to learn and retain, and the discipline. Stanley Dancer knew this. True Duane beat Bret in a longer race (mile an an eighth). Cardigan Bay and Adios Vic got to him also. The one I saw at Sportsman Bret won by 8.

A fair day??
 

Im a has been at the Bloomsburg Co. fair in PA. Now that was fun......

This site has PA Fair video for 2008-09.

HARNESS
 

Harness racing is much different than it was when they used the conventional sulky. First of all, you didn't have all of these crazy moves so your horse didn't get parked out or shuffled out of contention like they do now. But the main thing, if you bet on the best horse and it could finish, it didn't matter what post it had or how much speed was in the race. I used to bet closers from the outside posts when I knew I had the horse, and they could win. Now, the final times are too fast because of the bikes, so outside closers rarely have a chance. Also years ago if there was a lot of speed in a race, you bet a closer and the speed backed up. Now, sometimes there's an insane pace and the leader hangs on. The sport is drastically different. I used to know a lot of smart handicappers who won regularly. Not anymore. I'm not saying that you can't win, I still show a profit, but it's tougher, and the racing simply isn't as much fun because you can't figure out the race shape.

Nothing has ever been stated any truer.

How can you predict "the pace of a race" and how that same pace develops, if your unable to determine which horses are going to be leading?

LAST HORSE TO THE LEAD
 

Good point. I remember handicapping Roosevelt and Yonkers years ago, and if a good driver had a horse with speed from post 7, that horse would be the "last horse to the lead." If you liked the horse, you knew that you could bet it and it would be cutting the mile, especially if the horse had a good gate driver, like the Redman, Loosh, Joe Marsh, Jr., Herve, Daigneault. Now, on most half mile tracks, outside leavers get parked the mile a lot because the drivers from the inside don't want to give up the lead due to the speed favoring nature of the track. This causes havoc and the race just falls apart. A lot of the bizzare longshots that win are horses that don't figure but sneak in off a pace fallout because the drivers got into a senseless speed duel. Again, if they still used conventional bikes, this would not happen because with the old bikes, the drivers had to save something for the end. That's why you rarely saw insane fractions back then. Again, this is the main reason why the big professional bettors left the sport for thoroughbred racing. These guys need to see some logic with the way the race is run. I also bet more money on thoroughbreds now.

That being said, I sometimes wonder if the best way to bet harness racing is to not use the pps. I think that just have a good system and betting the overlays is probably the way to go.