Is NYRA sick?
 

I do understand the impact of weather on racing! But after all summer and autumn, one would think that racing operations, schedulers and coordinators would check the Weather Channel in advance once in a while.

Doing the same thing over and over time after time without making any sort of adjustments is stupid beyond stupid.

Here is ONE PIECE OF ADVICE for you, adjust the condition book!

They should hire you.

Or did you apply for a job with them and get rejected. That would explain a lot.

I am a big critic of NYRA, but I bet writing condition books at Northeast tracks in the fall and spring when weather shifts are so common is a really tough job.

Can you imagine taking races off the turf in a condition book a week or more out and then the day turns up sunny? That would happen. A lot.
Dumb idea.

NYRA has 3 or 4 sub races in the condition book each day. I think there are probably some times several days out they know they likely will not be on the turf and maybe they could use the sub dirt races instead. Maybe they do that already, but does not seem like it. The last couple of months the weather has been ridiculous.

Maybe just too many races are carded for the turf.

Turf seems to draw larger fields, which attracts more bettors. Capping dirt races isn't rocket science, pick the speed horse. Turf is more random, more contestants have a chance.

And as we have seen pretty much all year at NYRA, when it rains those big field go to Hell in a hurry. If NYRA is dead set on becoming some kind f Europe East, maybe they should consider getting rid of dirt and putting in poly to support that goal.
Anyone have any stats on how that works at WO? GG?

I know weather is unpredictable, but when you put on your product outdoors, you have to keep looking for solutions.

Yes they are.

Can't please everyone.

The turf-carded races are a big part of their business, and it takes brass balls to say "hey our weather guy thinks we've got a rain pattern in 2 weeks so we going to shift around 4 races each day for several days!"

I don't even know that they have a 'weather guy'.

Can't please everyone.

They did a solid job managing it and taking care of the turf course

They don't have many horses to fill the dirt races with.

The turf races fill.

It's rained most weekends (or so it seems) in the northeast this year, and we're probably going to finish in the top 5 rainiest years in the last 150 years (that's a fact).

The horses to fill the dirt races don't exist, so they try for the turf. I's an impossible situation if you like full fields and turf races, but I have no idea what anyone who doesn't own a magic wand or crystal ball could do about it.

It's not two weeks....It is several days.

Can you clarify?

Right now, the AQU condition book is available for 11/21-12/2.

11/21 is twelve days from now and 12/2 is more than 3 weeks.

Way too far out to adjust due to anticipated weather of specific days.

While the underlying reason may be the eventual demise of Belmont,
the idea of putting a second turf course in at a track where optimum
weather will allow you to run on it two out of six months is baffling IMO.

No I am saying that if on say a Sunday it looks like the following Thur and Fri are going to be washouts, to use the 3 or 4 substitute races already in the condition book when races are drawn if they are dirt races instead of turf races. Even if it just amounts to removing one turf race and adding a dirt race, the track would be ahead of the game.

They could actually be trying to do that already, I don't know. Sometimes dirt races just do not fill.

There's a piece being left out....all the off-the-turf races have depleted potential dirt runners. While I realize we haven't had an abundance of MTOs, there have been enough to affect some dirt races. In this ecosystem, the rain has disrupted EVERYTHING.

I have moved on from Aqueduct racing for now. Seems like their scratching half the horses entered.

I hadn't thought of that; thanks for mentioning.

Twice the opportunity to lose races to rain. :rolleyes:

Exactly. Not blaming NYRA, but the nd result is still the same.
Smaller field and many non-competitive fields.

Not sure what the answer is, but is it even being discussed?
At least for weekend racing.

Maybe have sub races for dirt on standby, make the decision late Thursday or Friday which to run? As it is now, when the race comes of and scratches happen, everyone's schedule is disrupted anyway.

Maybe a 10%-15% purse bonus for MTO only horses? Weight allowance? Waiver claiming for MTO? Exception from allowance conditions for MTO?

"NW1X MCS, OC50,000 or MTO" clause?

Fortunately, I don't run the racing office. You would think/hope the purses are good enough that you shouldn't need any more incentive to run as an MTO. Not that I dislike your idea, but shouldn't the regular purses be enough? If anything, we should incentivize turf horses to stay in ( but, then, dirt horses would just enter in the body of the race....right? ). Vicious circle.

You can't have "sub races" as that would cause WAY too much confusion. Plus, I'm not even sure we could fill extra races anyway ( note Wednesday's 8-race card ).

I hear you, and it's frustrating and difficult. We have been fortunate overall with weather over the past four or five years. We paid for it this year. It's brutal for everyone. Hopefully, this too shall pass.

I'm not sure it would even be feasible, but having 3 tracks would be an interesting "long term" solution. Widen the turf and they could still card plenty of turf races by moving the rails around a bit. Then whenever it rains move the turf races to a turf friendlier variation of synthetic. Then in the winter, use the synthetic for racing (if AQU ever goes away) or turn it into a training track.

You are right about one thing though, NY is becoming US center of turf racing when it should actually be California. It's almost like CA should send their dirt horses here and we should send our turfers there and maybe we'd all be better off.

"adjust the condition book"...Yeah, I found that rather amusing.
"weather Channel" also on the humorous side of silly.
Wonder if the poster above would be satisfied if the condition book was based on the Old Farmer's Almanac

Naaaah..Its easy. Just ask the OP.
Look, I am no apologist for NYRA. Or any other racing jurisdiction.
If they get it right, I go along with it. If they get it wrong( chronically) I will opine to that effect.

NYRA isn't sick...but I can't be as sure about the mental condition of its wagering patrons. The wagering opportunities there have been decidedly unappetizing...IMO.

Naah....It is n't too many. its the fact that more races on turf are needed because more horses are better suited for turf.
Or would you prefer turf specialists simply emigrate to Europe and we have no turf races here in the states?
Here's another idea. Bet Turfway, Oaklawn and Los Al...No turf at any of those.
Just sayin.

The problem with southern latitude tracks being the centers for turf racing is.....Well use Gulfstream as an example. Two months into their winter meet, the turf course resembles a moonscape.
The issue is the type of warm season turf grasses that can grow in those agronomic conditions have shallow root bases. Those grasses do not tolerate the repeated pounding and tearing associated with horse racing.
Hence, the tenuous conditions we see at those places

If we never ran another turf race, I would not cry.
IF we never ran another turf sprint I would do cartwheels and buy round for the track.

I do bet OP - best track out there, bar none.

One thing is for sure - the problem never goes away until people try to come with ideas to solve it.

NYRA already tried something similar several years ago at Saratoga where any race taken off the turf & remaining with 8+ betting interests got a purse boost of 20%. I don't recall this being a rousing success considering here we are still discussing ways to keep fields in tact when rained off the turf.

Im not seeing a problem. So we have to skip a race once in a while. If the world were a perfect place, life would be boring.
Look, Its weather related.
Your vote for "no turf racing" is noted. Thank you.
I like turf racing. Larger fields. Better value. More skilled handicapping involved.
JMO

Noting your stated home town....Finger Lakes is in your back yard.
Guess what? Not "weeds" there either. Fire away!

One thing is for sure, all of these NYRA scratches have made a lot of crappy horses look a whole lot better then they actually are. Oh BTW the little guy should have pointed out that Aqueduct fall/winter consistently has 5-6 horse fields. Most of the time having nothing to do with weather. Scratching at Aqueduct year after year is a natural Phenomenon.

In the winter last year, November through March, 41% of the races had fields of 6 horses or less. Not commenting either way, just putting a number on it.

Nice well thought out reply.
Thank you your great insights.
I am in your debt.

It rains plenty in England and France but they don't have nearly the cancellation of turf races we do. From what i've read, Europe has very efficient drainage systems on their turf course.

For the horsemen, the real issues with taking races off the turf are: often trainers have a schedule for their horse in preparation for a big race, and horses are being stabled but not earning.

That is a terrible analogy. Racetracks in France and England don't have extended meets the same way we do in this country. This is a major difference. Obviously there are other differences, but this is the major one. Yes, their courses are different, but not having extended continuous use like we do in this country plays a MAJOR role. They also cancel cards over there more than you may realize.

The US may have an extended racing season but in regards to NYRA its a whole different ballgame. The fields are a third the size and factor in the above average scratches the shorter seasons in Europe basically match the longer ones in the US. This is based on entrants of course. The stats dont lie.

I give you credit. You never tire of saying inaccurate and foolish things. It's a talent. It works well on the internet, that's for sure.

If you remove NYRA from my wagering universe, I am left with nothing to bet on because I do not wager on claiming races. As is, I wager only on p-4s and the universe of p-4s that does not include claiming races is very small: 1-2 plays per week at most?

There are only about 3-4 plays for me on the West Coast per year period, without SAR stake cards, KD, Kee and GP, I have no place left to wager.

That's why the situation at NYRA bothers me because from my point of view with the riches of high quality horses and purses, they should be able to put out a product that I( I reapeat I) could bet on.

Also, a lot of European courses have several different configurations and courses, so they aren't running over the same grass over and over again.

And on the extended meet issue-- by way of example, Longchamps will race 34 days next year. The other 331 days of the year, the grass will be growing back. :) Any American racetrack could probably keep its turf course in excellent shape if they had that race schedule.