Hey Meester
 

You didn't come loogink for a discussion. You came loogink for an argument!

Quite the contrary, I assure you, an argument is not what I was looking for. I disagree with the small rider statement. It is all individual from jockey to jockey. If you have an eye for such things, you can tell a successful rider who helps get run out of his horses, and those who are mearly passengers. The rider example I gave is a perfect one. He is not the conventional image of the size, or the style of what people who make such statements tend to think would be the "total package rider", but it surely does not stop the man from getting run, and winning ALOT of races with his horses. I don't like general sweeping statements as such, that small riders get more run out of horses than taller riders. It is in fact, just plain not true.

thats all,
Have a great day,
LIH

And I disagree when someone suggests that a single (or even several) exception(s) automatically refutes a general premise. Of course there are some larger jockeys who are highly successful, just as Nate Robinson can dunk, but it's much easier for Dwight Howard. To some extent, your previous post -about how hard r.d. has to work on a horse-makes my point for me. I've probably wagered on 50,000 races, and witnessed perhaps twice that many, and it's my observation that thoroughbreds run best for jockeys able to position their weight well forward over the withers. Most big riders sit further back, unless they straighten their legs euro-style, which constitutes poor form in the USA. To better prove my point, ignore elite riders for a minute and focus on those lacking skill. I think you will agree that real bums tend to have bigger frames.

Gray got incredible run from his mounts. Willie could curl into a ball and position virtually all his wgt up on the withers, where, in my opinion, a horse is least encumbered by the impost.

I believe that smaller riders have an advantage-and a formidable patron saint in Willie Shoemaker.

I agree, but they also must have strong hands for the stretch-drive.....

Good point, sir. Gray invariably needed an outrider to catch his mounts on the gallop outs, because he just couldn't pull a horse up.

There was a jockey named Rick Evans at the Chicago-area tracks when I first started in the game. He had to be the shortest jockey I ever saw.

Julie Krone is 4'10".

Klinke rode at 4'3" and 102 pounds. However, he could bench press more than any other jock in the room. Massive upper body for a guy his size. He could really pump on a horse.

However, neither of these statements posted above about him are true:

1) "His brother was an enormous lineman who played in the NFL."

He was friends since age 4 with Mike Tice, the former NFL player/coach. See this story: http://www.newsday.com/sports/sunday...-buds-1.425366

2) "If I'm not mistaken, wasn't it Klinke & Vernon Bush that got caught by Police in a "Bolivian Snowstorm" while parked in a car in the fabulous '80s???"

That's flat-out wrong. It was Bush and another jockey (I've forgotten who) who got busted doing coke on the way back from Northampton Fair in the early 1990s.

From the article cited above:

"Klinke eventually had to retire from racing because of multiple injuries, the last coming in 1997 at upstate Finger Lakes.

"The horse bolted off the track, hit the end of the rail, and I fractured

nine ribs and had a punctured lung," said Klinke, who still has pain from those

injuries. "I was in the hospital for 28 days, but Mike was a big help for me

then, giving me pep talks all the time."

Klinke has since become a motivational speaker, traveling across Florida to

speak to young people.

"Another friend of mine who's short works with me, and we talk to kids

about achieving and about bullying. We try to tell them about what's important

in life. The message is that it's not what you look like, but what's inside

you."

Chicago area players have mentioned Rick Evans and EE Perez, but another from the late 70's was James Long. Didn't get a lot of mounts, but I remember being taller than him, and I wasn't very tall then.

Surprised nobody has mentioned the great Ralph Garcia.

Rode mostly in Oregon and Washington. A few in Nor. Cal.

See him all the time. Working as an agent.

Had his daughter Shyann's book when she rode a few years back.

The smallest big time jocks the last 20 years or so would have to be Julie and Chop Chop. Chavez was definitely under five feet. Maybe 4-10.

On the other end Mike McCarthy was around 5-9, 5-10. He was just creepy looking when he rode 112. In the NYRA world I believe the Mig was big but not super big. Like 5'6.

The most interesting part is according to old school trainers you can be too small to be a jockey. Basically some trainers feel "dead weight" is really bad an a horse. So if a horse has to carry significant weight other than the jockey he has disadvantage to horses that are carrying the same weight of mostly human.

So a 85 pound jockey would probably have trouble getting mounts,'

John McKee came to my mind. He is 4'9" but looks much smaller when he walks in th e paddock with other jocks.

Thanks for the trip down memory lane
He was riding when i started going to the races at Aqueduct in the 70s

smallest jockey
 

while this topic was raised, what about the tallest jockey
to ever ride a thoroughbred?

:eek: