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-   -   Sports Wagering one step closer in NJ.... (http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=114956)

onefast99 06-29-2014 08:18 AM

Sports Wagering one step closer in NJ....
 
Accordingly, under this bill, New Jersey would decide that its “exact contours of the



prohibition” against sports wagering should be to repeal New Jersey’s prohibitions



against sports wagering “at casinos or gambling houses in Atlantic City or at current



running and harness horse racetracks in this State.”



Therefore, the proposed law states the following:



1. All prohibitions, including, but not limited to, Chapter 37 of Title 2C of the



New Jersey Statutes, against wagering on the results of any professional,



college, or amateur sport or athletic event, are partially repealed to the extent



they would apply to such wagering at casinos or gambling houses in Atlantic



City or at current running and harness horse racetracks in this State.



2. This act shall take effect immediately.

Portion of a letter written last week by Dennis Drazin in regards to the Supreme Court deciding not to hear an appeal by NJ for sports wagering. Looks good for NJ sports wagering!

RunForTheRoses 06-29-2014 09:38 AM

They should just go ahead and do this and see what the Fed Govt does. Marijuana is illegal at the federal level but it has not stopped many states.

tanner12oz 06-29-2014 09:44 AM

Pretty sure this never happens but it sure needs to...atlantic city is about dead and only going to get worse without some shot of life

dirty moose 06-29-2014 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tanner12oz
Pretty sure this never happens but it sure needs to...atlantic city is about dead and only going to get worse without some shot of life

Other than the Borgata or maybe Harras, what else is there anymore? I wouldn't stay anywhere but those two places. I haven't been to Revel yet but it's a ghost town for a reason I'm guessing.

wiffleball whizz 06-29-2014 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tanner12oz
Pretty sure this never happens but it sure needs to...atlantic city is about dead and only going to get worse without some shot of life

Never happens is correct.....

pele polo 06-29-2014 12:15 PM


Chris Longshot 06-29-2014 01:04 PM

As someone that visits Atlantic City quite frequently, its really sad to see all the negative developments. As a horseplayer, its even worse as Borgata is the only casino to offer simulcasting. Thankfully, that is the only place I stay anyway but it sucks to see such degenerates now at the Borgata racebook. Other than maybe the Golden Nugget, don't think there is a casino worth staying at or playing at that isnt the two mentioned above. Sports gambling I guess would be a step in the right direction, AC is sinking very quickly.

Mineshaft 06-29-2014 01:10 PM

we smoke pot legally in Colo-Cali-Wash, and maybe a few more states but can only wager legally in Vegas and Tahoe.

Its about time other states start trying to pass legalizes wagering on sporting events

horses4courses 06-29-2014 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mineshaft
we smoke pot legally in Colo-Cali-Wash, and maybe a few more states but can only wager legally in Vegas and Tahoe.

Its about time other states start trying to pass legalizes wagering on sporting events

The problem is that the pro sports organizations, and the NCAA, are far more powerful than any group opposed to pot. They will block any sports wagering growth. One of these days, I hope they get overruled, but it's a long way off.

tanner12oz 06-29-2014 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirty moose
Other than the Borgata or maybe Harras, what else is there anymore? I wouldn't stay anywhere but those two places. I haven't been to Revel yet but it's a ghost town for a reason I'm guessing.

pretty sure I heard this week the showboat is closing...i dont think the sands is there anymore...i was in town maybe 10 years back and it was beginning to be shuttered back then. With continued proliferation of wagering in surrounding states ( and at home in NJ) I can't imagine the situation getting any better...seriously though lets pose a question...

why would someone go to Atlantic city?

lamboguy 06-29-2014 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tanner12oz
pretty sure I heard this week the showboat is closing...i dont think the sands is there anymore...i was in town maybe 10 years back and it was beginning to be shuttered back then. With continued proliferation of wagering in surrounding states ( and at home in NJ) I can't imagine the situation getting any better...seriously though lets pose a question...

why would someone go to Atlantic city?

its a great place if you like to shop in pawn shops.

burnsy 06-29-2014 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by horses4courses
The problem is that the pro sports organizations, and the NCAA, are far more powerful than any group opposed to pot. They will block any sports wagering growth. One of these days, I hope they get overruled, but it's a long way off.

Totally agree, don't forget Las Vegas, the books and their "non association" with aforementioned groups......:D ........the NFL has nothing to do with gambling.....;) . Original poster: One step closer but maybe many, many years away. Unless someone gets brave and pushes on it, which could be detrimental to political or personal health and welfare. Isn't there a thread every year about this? I think in the original one, I wrote in 10 years or so....never if it can be gotten away with.......The pot, the betting, all the personal decisions. The more important question in a "free country" is why??????? In the year 2014 the idea of a free country is still telling people how to live....amazing! You can bet here, but not over there. Smoke pot here, but not over there....Where's that one? In the Bible somewhere?:lol:

Longshot6977 06-29-2014 02:55 PM

Monmouth racetrack is the only venue to sign on that will take sports wagering (starting with the fall NFL season in Sept). This was promised by Drazin. Once it gets going, other tracks and casinos may step up.

If anyone was wondering how NJ can still have sports wagering even though the higher courts said no (like I was thinking too), there is a loophole that prohibits the state of NJ from running the operation. It didn't say a 3rd party couldn't control it. So that is what NJ is doing at Monmouth with the loophole. Some clever lawyer thought of it so they wouldn't get penalized by the Feds.

proximity 06-29-2014 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tanner12oz
pretty sure I heard this week the showboat is closing...i dont think the sands is there anymore...i was in town maybe 10 years back and it was beginning to be shuttered back then. With continued proliferation of wagering in surrounding states ( and at home in NJ) I can't imagine the situation getting any better...seriously though lets pose a question...

why would someone go to Atlantic city?

I still try and go about once a month just to get away but even if you take the free rooms and free food out of the equation atlantic city still gives me better player rewards than the other mid atlantic casinos that I go to. I haven't been down in awhile but I think mdlive had a really good program going for regular players though..... trying to keep players from going to horseshoe Baltimore when it opens.

horses4courses 06-29-2014 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burnsy
Totally agree, don't forget Las Vegas, the books and their "non association" with aforementioned groups

You're right, and it gives rise to a peculiar situation.

The NV casinos are opposed to the spread of sports wagering in the US,
but every single employee that works in their books hope that it grows elsewhere.
Suddenly, they have potential job opportunities all over the country.

States should have the power to decide this issue, but it won't happen. :ThmbDown:

onefast99 06-29-2014 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by horses4courses
The problem is that the pro sports organizations, and the NCAA, are far more powerful than any group opposed to pot. They will block any sports wagering growth. One of these days, I hope they get overruled, but it's a long way off.

The Supreme Court didn't want to hear the appeal by NJ because they would rather let the lower courts work this out as they know eventually NJ will get sports wagering. The fact is you cannot make it legal in one state and expect the other states just to sit by and do nothing. The push by the NJ lawmakers is one that will result in sports wagering in our state sooner than later!

horses4courses 06-29-2014 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onefast99
The Supreme Court didn't want to hear the appeal by NJ because they would rather let the lower courts work this out as they know eventually NJ will get sports wagering. The fact is you cannot make it legal in one state and expect the other states just to sit by and do nothing. The push by the NJ lawmakers is one that will result in sports wagering in our state sooner than later!

I sincerely hope you are right.
My head says otherwise.

Redboard 06-29-2014 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tanner12oz
pretty sure I heard this week the showboat is closing...i dont think the sands is there anymore...i was in town maybe 10 years back and it was beginning to be shuttered back then. With continued proliferation of wagering in surrounding states ( and at home in NJ) I can't imagine the situation getting any better...seriously though lets pose a question...

why would someone go to Atlantic city?

Exactly. We have our illustrious gov to thank for this mess. He of the 2016 presidential aspirations. The state invested $263 million to finish building the Revel( in exchange for 20% of the revenues), screwed the horsemen out of any purse supplements and refused to put casinos anywhere else in the state. Any idiot could see that, with surrounding states now having casinos, AC needed another casino like another hole in the head. If I’m a resident of Philadelphia, why would I have to drive 2 hours to play a game of blackjack?
Why not was put a casino in Camden, Monmouth and the Meadowlands? You know, like, where the people are. Idiot.

SandyW 06-29-2014 05:51 PM

The one thing that has to be remembered is that the NCAA, MLB, NFL, is against the spread of sports wagering and that Harry Reid is in charge of the senate.
These hurdles alone will be almost impossible to over come.
The feds will shut Jersey down on the first day that they try to start sports wagering.

thespaah 06-29-2014 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wiffleball whizz
Never happens is correct.....

Not so fast. I think NJ goes ahead with the legislation now proposed that has found a loophole in the federal law.
The way I see it is that SCOTUS refused to hear the case. Therefore it leaves the existing federal law intact. Since NJ attorneys theorize the law is unconstitutional, hence the reason they attempted to get SCOTUS to hear the case, they can move forward and implement the wagering.
The federal government would then have to proceed with a suit against NJ, most likely beginning with a complaint to a federal court asking for a temporary restraining order to cease and desist.
Of course I am not an attorney and I just guessing at all of this.
I believe the federal law can be challenged because it does not apply to all 50 states.
The Marijuana laws apply nationwide but 4 ( I think ) states have gone ahead and defied the federal government. So far the feds have not done anything to challenge those states. Why wagering is treated differently is a mystery to me.
http://www.covers.com/articles/artic...?theArt=377063

http://casinowatch.wordpress.com/cat...-casedecision/

One note....I think the federal government has no business getting into this fray. Those knuckleheads have far larger fish to fry.

tanner12oz 06-29-2014 06:27 PM

Obviously the money is in football and hoops but if the concern in the NFL and NCAA why not start taking bets on sports that might not have as much pull in the states like boxing, soccer and entertainment related bets...i would assume with the additional interest from bettors these sports or events might see a spike in interest while the tax dollars began to flow in....seeing the dollars flow might lubricate the feds and seeing the spike in interest and possible threat to there viewership other sports might get on board...

I know the above is kinda idiotic relying on boxing and Oscar wagering but we have to get our foot in the door with something ya know?

thespaah 06-29-2014 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by horses4courses
The problem is that the pro sports organizations, and the NCAA, are far more powerful than any group opposed to pot. They will block any sports wagering growth. One of these days, I hope they get overruled, but it's a long way off.

And the people running those leagues plus the NCAA have a view through rose colored glasses.
There is literally billions of dollars in "illegal" handle wagered every year on their respective sports.
I think its farcical that bettors in Nevada can make all the wagers they wish and the sports leagues look the other way.
It's like "ok we know they're betting in Vegas and we'll live with that, but THAT'S IT!!!"....
The whole thing is illogical. The idea that contests will be infiltrated and game fixing will become rampant is ludicrous. The athletes make tons of money. They cannot be bribed. Why would they?

thespaah 06-29-2014 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lamboguy
its a great place if you like to shop in pawn shops.

Yes, Showboat closes on Aug 31st. The Revel is slated to close if a buyer for the property is not found.

tanner12oz 06-29-2014 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thespaah
Not so fast. I think NJ goes ahead with the legislation now proposed that has found a loophole in the federal law.
The way I see it is that SCOTUS refused to hear the case. Therefore it leaves the existing federal law intact. Since NJ attorneys theorize the law is unconstitutional, hence the reason they attempted to get SCOTUS to hear the case, they can move forward and implement the wagering.
The federal government would then have to proceed with a suit against NJ, most likely beginning with a complaint to a federal court asking for a temporary restraining order to cease and desist.
Of course I am not an attorney and I just guessing at all of this.
I believe the federal law can be challenged because it does not apply to all 50 states.
The Marijuana laws apply nationwide but 4 ( I think ) states have gone ahead and defied the federal government. So far the feds have not done anything to challenge those states. Why wagering is treated differently is a mystery to me.
http://www.covers.com/articles/artic...?theArt=377063

http://casinowatch.wordpress.com/cat...-casedecision/

One note....I think the federal government has no business getting into this fray. Those knuckleheads have far larger fish to fry.

listen I have seen this over and over the past decade...others have seen it over multiple decades...even when it looks good its all smoke and mirrors...i think Delaware was supposed to get sports betting years ago...were even building additions and stuff on casinos for it and then I'm pretty sure it died somewhere

I'm not trying to site promote or anything but I'm a member at therx.com which covers the offshore industry but of course doesn't forget about the mainland wagering business..offshore wagering has been basically decimated by the feds and this would be a great chance for something onshore to spring up...like I said though...highly doubt it

thespaah 06-29-2014 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onefast99
The Supreme Court didn't want to hear the appeal by NJ because they would rather let the lower courts work this out as they know eventually NJ will get sports wagering. The fact is you cannot make it legal in one state and expect the other states just to sit by and do nothing. The push by the NJ lawmakers is one that will result in sports wagering in our state sooner than later!

I think that plays into my theory.
The way I see it is this. If the SCOTUS had heard the case and had NJ lost, it would seem to me that the opinion of the SCOTUS would have to apply to ALL 50 states. That would in theory shut down ALL sports betting in the country.
I believe that is why NJ tried to have the SCOTUS hear the case.
It was a win win for NJ had the Court decided to take the case.
I think if NJ pushes this hard enough, it cracks.

WP1981 06-29-2014 06:59 PM

Why have I seen photos of NFL parlay tickets on twitter from Delaware Park?

Multiple games okay, single games not?

thespaah 06-29-2014 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WP1981
Why have I seen photos of NFL parlay tickets on twitter from Delaware Park?

Multiple games okay, single games not?

As I understand the DE law, that is correct. No single game wagers are permitted. Must be a multiple game wager.

WP1981 06-29-2014 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thespaah
As I understand the DE law, that is correct. No single game wagers are permitted. Must be a multiple game wager.

That would be cool. "$20 WP on the 4 at SA and a $50 two teamer Cinci -2.5 and the Arizona money line. Thanks"

ManU918 06-29-2014 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wiffleball whizz
Never happens is correct.....

Just like the Spurs were never winning game 4? Come on man saying never is ridiculous. Weed, poker.... sports is next. It still may take a few years but eventually it will be available.

Robert Goren 06-30-2014 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redboard
Exactly. We have our illustrious gov to thank for this mess. He of the 2016 presidential aspirations. The state invested $263 million to finish building the Revel( in exchange for 20% of the revenues), screwed the horsemen out of any purse supplements and refused to put casinos anywhere else in the state. Any idiot could see that, with surrounding states now having casinos, AC needed another casino like another hole in the head. If I’m a resident of Philadelphia, why would I have to drive 2 hours to play a game of blackjack?
Why not was put a casino in Camden, Monmouth and the Meadowlands? You know, like, where the people are. Idiot.

How is not giving purse supplements screwing the horsemen? Since when is making a business stand on it two feet a bad thing. He made a mistake by giving money to the casino, but at least he did compound it by giving to the horsemen too.

horses4courses 06-30-2014 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thespaah
The athletes make tons of money. They cannot be bribed. Why would they?

I agree with all you say, until the last part.

Never say never - especially when it comes to "easy money".

It's always blown me away how much money can be bet - either legally
or otherwise - on a single game point spread in this country.
The perfect scenario for "fixing" is a huge favorite (say, over 14 points in
either football or basketball) that still wins the game, but doesn't
come close to covering the spread. The casual bystander thinks
nothing of it - after all, the favorite won the game. End of story.

You are correct in saying that pro athletes would be harder to bribe.
College athletes are far more prone to "take a dive".
However, nothing is impossible when large sums of cash are involved.

These types of "non-covering favorite" situations could occur pretty easily
with little risk of detection. Unless, those involved got too greedy and tried it
once too often.

Where would they get the wagers down?
Hard to say, except that large illegal bookmakers might be very interested
in being able to lay large sums at favorable spreads to unsuspecting bettors
in the knowledge that they won't be having to pay out.

This is where the pro sports bodies, and the NCAA, start to cough uncomfortably,
and try to change the topic of discussion.
They always deny that legal books in Nevada are the best possible
barometer for uncovering point-shaving and fixing situations.
Unusual betting patterns can be detected in Nevada pretty easily,
and those responsible actually have a chance of being caught.
This has happened on more than one occasion - an Arizona State
point-shaving scheme comes to mind in 1994.

Under current conditions, with billions being bet illegally
both in the US and with the offshore books, game fixing is far more difficult to detect.
Pro sports, and the NCAA, have no desire to make changes.
They argue their games will become tainted
should gambling on them be legalized beyond Nevada.
They don't want change because they are making billions as things stand.

I won't go into the probable influences on those who lobby politically
for these sports bodies. You can draw your own conclusions.
It's safe to say, though, that all involved do very nicely
under the current state of affairs. They long to maintain the status quo.

This state of inertia, when it comes to sports wagering, goes against the wishes of a growing number of younger voters. It's not a critical issue, by any means, but, like marijuana, it has gained more prominence.

Here's hoping it continues to do so, and that eventually each state
will have a choice as to whether it's residents can wager legally
on a sporting event.

Robert Goren 06-30-2014 02:42 AM

We have people who post here who yell fix a lot when the team they bet on loses. Try using they make too much to bought argument on them.

LottaKash 06-30-2014 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SandyW
The feds will shut Jersey down on the first day that they try to start sports wagering.

Well, I would ask then, how is it that Nevada is able to do it, yet no other state can do it ?....

That question has always intrigued me...

Stillriledup 06-30-2014 04:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thespaah
And the people running those leagues plus the NCAA have a view through rose colored glasses.
There is literally billions of dollars in "illegal" handle wagered every year on their respective sports.
I think its farcical that bettors in Nevada can make all the wagers they wish and the sports leagues look the other way.
It's like "ok we know they're betting in Vegas and we'll live with that, but THAT'S IT!!!"....
The whole thing is illogical. The idea that contests will be infiltrated and game fixing will become rampant is ludicrous. The athletes make tons of money. They cannot be bribed. Why would they?


Its pretty simple, sports leagues are against sports wagering because they aren't getting a cut of the proceeds, it has nothing to do with "fixing". billions of dollars of illegal money is being moved on a yearly basis, its not like the fixers are sitting around waiting patiently for sports betting to become legal.

People looking to fix games and bribe players are not waiting for a govt run building, equipped with state of the art surveillance cameras where you're required to bring large amounts of cash to bet at a place with strict limits, the fixers, if these people actually exist, are doing all their stuff behind the scenes, away from the prying eyes and they're doing it ON CREDIT.

SandyW 06-30-2014 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LottaKash
Well, I would ask then, how is it that Nevada is able to do it, yet no other state can do it ?....

That question has always intrigued me...

Nevada was grandfathered in.

onefast99 06-30-2014 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Goren
How is not giving purse supplements screwing the horsemen? Since when is making a business stand on it two feet a bad thing. He made a mistake by giving money to the casino, but at least he did compound it by giving to the horsemen too.

Robert Goren we have gone down this road many times, the horseman cut a deal with the casinos to keep the VLT's from popping up at the racetracks and cutting into the profits the casinos make. The casinos feared once the VLT's were in table games weren't too far behind. You are too critical of the horseman and not of the casino owners who have a constitution protecting them in NJ from the spread of casino style gaming to anywhere else in the state. The tax incentives the casinos received have also been on the "are you kidding me" who decided this debate. Did you ever wonder who wrote that into the constitution? Guess....

onefast99 06-30-2014 09:38 AM

Here's hoping it continues to do so, and that eventually each state
will have a choice as to whether it's residents can wager legally
on a sporting event.


horses4courses you nailed it let the states decide!

TravisVOX 06-30-2014 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SandyW
Nevada was grandfathered in.

What about Delaware?

ManU918 06-30-2014 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TravisVOX
What about Delaware?

Oregon, Delaware, Nevada and Montana did not take part in the amateur and professional sports protection act of 1992.

TravisVOX 06-30-2014 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManU918
Oregon, Delaware, Nevada and Montana did not take part in the amateur and professional sports protection act of 1992.

I'm not at attorney, nor do I pretend to be one online, so the whole legal landscape of this thing is hard to understand.


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