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-   -   B.Smith at Charlestown. Who is this guy? (http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50361)

rufus999 09-04-2008 09:54 PM

B.Smith at Charlestown. Who is this guy?
 
He's 4 for 220 through the sixth so far tonight. Two wins and a place. Never heard of him until about three days ago. Anyone?


rufus:9::9::9:

jotb 09-05-2008 07:05 AM

10 pound apprentice rider that just come in from Louisiana Downs. Was 0-16 at CT going into last night.

Joe

rufus999 09-05-2008 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jotb
10 pound apprentice rider that just come in from Louisiana Downs. Was 0-16 at CT going into last night.

Joe

thx. I did cash in with him once last night.:cool: I just figured he had a good mount so how bad could he be? Someone wanted him I guess.

rufus:9::9::9:

cnollfan 09-09-2008 07:05 PM

I will bet on virtually any jockey, but one of Smith's rides on Musicmeister this summer was eye-catchingly poor. The horse eventually ran second twice at big prices with another pilot.

jotb 09-11-2008 05:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cnollfan
I will bet on virtually any jockey, but one of Smith's rides on Musicmeister this summer was eye-catchingly poor. The horse eventually ran second twice at big prices with another pilot.

I didn't watch the race when Brandon rode Musicmeister and it's possible that the ride might have been questionable according to you but so many times you hear it's "always the jock why the horse ran bad".

I can make a case for the kid by just looking at the pp's. He rode the horse on 6-27-08 in a 10KNW2L 6.0F and finished 8th which was the horses 2nd race off the 161 day layoff (that was a 5KNW2L 6.0F finished 10th). The trainer then runs the horse back in 8 days in a 5KNW2L going 8.5F (never ran this distance ever) and the horse-jock (B.SMITH) made a decent middle move running 2nd until the top of the stretch, eventually faltering through the stretch to finish 9th. Brandon Smith is replaced next out and the horse now finished 2nd but keep in mind the horse turned back in distance 6.0F and even though he finished 2nd the horse was 9 lengths behind the winner. The horse finished 6 lengths in front on the 10th place horse.

The trainer of Musicmeister (don't know much about him) looks like the type when there's a race for the horse in the book, he runs the horse no matter what. How do you run a horse in a 5KNW2L 5 times getting beat pretty bad 4 of those 5 times at that level. Between those 5KNW2L the trainer runs the horse once for NW2L10K and NW15KNW2L? Yes, he gets a 2nd in the 15k race but then runs the horse back twice for a 5KNW2L finishing 5th and just the other day finished 10th beaten almost 24 lengths. More than likely, it's the owner pushing the trainer to run the horse constantly. Sometimes owners think a racehorse is a machine.

Joe

shoelessjoe 09-11-2008 05:42 AM

Playing CT for the last 40 years you really shouldnt pay too much attention to the jockeys.

jotb 09-11-2008 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoelessjoe
Playing CT for the last 40 years you really shouldnt pay too much attention to the jockeys.

Maybe 40 years ago it was a different story but these days at CT, I would think knowing your jocks is of importance. Some horses you can just eliminate because (especially if they are a contender) the jockey will not get the job done. Many of the CT jocks will constantly make the same mistakes over and over. Riding the bullring is not an easy chore. It's all about position and getting your horse away from the gate in good fashion. There are a handful of riders here that fit this profile. Saving ground is a key factor here because of the tight turns. Feel free to ask questions about CT Shoelessjoe.

Joe

Zman179 09-11-2008 10:10 AM

B. Smith's future is very bright...as a dishwasher.

jotb 09-11-2008 11:51 AM

That's not nice Zman and the reason for that is because you didn't explain why. What makes you think his career as a jockey will turn into dishwasher?

Joe

shoelessjoe 09-11-2008 08:48 PM

Jotb,If I remember your a jockeys agent but 40 years ago you had a much better riding colony then you have now.Such jocks as Phil Grove,WM R Lewis JR,Troy Roberts,Dennis Kirk etc.Now you have Acosta,Dunk and Almadovar,lets face it the guys riding at Ct either are overweight or just not as strong as major circuit riders.

Two guys who ride there that are competant riders who dont really get good horses are Paul Nicol[even though he is getting up there in age]and David Cora.

Zman179 09-12-2008 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jotb
That's not nice Zman and the reason for that is because you didn't explain why. What makes you think his career as a jockey will turn into dishwasher?

Joe

Ok, maybe my comments are a little harsh, but Smith definitely has some fundamental flaws. Take for example the 6th race at Charles Town on 9/11 when Smith rode the #1 Last Action. Coming down the stretch the first time, he looks very uncomfortable on the horse compared to the other jockeys around him. He's almost sitting on the saddle. Then as they enter the far turn, you'll see a difference between riders. On the #3, you'll see the jockey hit the horse with the whip while urging him on. However, Smith doesn't appear to have the capabilities to urge and whip at the same time. When he whips, he stops pumping (you'll see it in the stretch.) You have to be able to do both. It's almost as if he's a little too concerned about falling off the horse.

You figure that there has to be something wrong with a rider who has had, as of 9/10, 231 mounts and still has a 10 pound bug. Gemerally, apprentice riders who show some ability are given the chance to show what they've got, if not for the break in the weights. The future is not bright.

Mineshaft 09-12-2008 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jotb
I didn't watch the race when Brandon rode Musicmeister and it's possible that the ride might have been questionable according to you but so many times you hear it's "always the jock why the horse ran bad".

I can make a case for the kid by just looking at the pp's. He rode the horse on 6-27-08 in a 10KNW2L 6.0F and finished 8th which was the horses 2nd race off the 161 day layoff (that was a 5KNW2L 6.0F finished 10th). The trainer then runs the horse back in 8 days in a 5KNW2L going 8.5F (never ran this distance ever) and the horse-jock (B.SMITH) made a decent middle move running 2nd until the top of the stretch, eventually faltering through the stretch to finish 9th. Brandon Smith is replaced next out and the horse now finished 2nd but keep in mind the horse turned back in distance 6.0F and even though he finished 2nd the horse was 9 lengths behind the winner. The horse finished 6 lengths in front on the 10th place horse.

The trainer of Musicmeister (don't know much about him) looks like the type when there's a race for the horse in the book, he runs the horse no matter what. How do you run a horse in a 5KNW2L 5 times getting beat pretty bad 4 of those 5 times at that level. Between those 5KNW2L the trainer runs the horse once for NW2L10K and NW15KNW2L? Yes, he gets a 2nd in the 15k race but then runs the horse back twice for a 5KNW2L finishing 5th and just the other day finished 10th beaten almost 24 lengths. More than likely, it's the owner pushing the trainer to run the horse constantly. Sometimes owners think a racehorse is a machine.

Joe








Who is the trainer?

jotb 09-13-2008 05:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mineshaft
Who is the trainer?

John Saffel is the trainer. He's a 6% trainer since 1999.

Joe

jotb 09-13-2008 06:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoelessjoe
Jotb,If I remember your a jockeys agent but 40 years ago you had a much better riding colony then you have now.Such jocks as Phil Grove,WM R Lewis JR,Troy Roberts,Dennis Kirk etc.Now you have Acosta,Dunk and Almadovar,lets face it the guys riding at Ct either are overweight or just not as strong as major circuit riders.

Two guys who ride there that are competant riders who dont really get good horses are Paul Nicol[even though he is getting up there in age]and David Cora.

Hello shoelessjoe:

I'll take your word about thr riding colony at CT 40 years ago. It's funny how you mentioned the top 3 riders at CT now. I'm not going to knock any of the three because they can ride but remember they win most of their races for the top trainers. They also win on many horses coming from Maryland and shippers dominate at CT. David Cora is based out of Penn and is the leading riding there so I can't see how you can say he don't ride good horses. I remember when Cora couldn't buy a mount in NY and Monmouth.

Riding the bullring is extremely tough to ride and can be awfully dangerous. I won't mention any names here but there are a couple riders that came from a one mile track and have done quite well considering they had to adjust to the bullring and can outride the 3 names you mentioned but remember you need the horse. The colony is full here and many of the jocks are nothing more than good exericise riders at best. The problem with this place is, it's all about what you do for me in the morning. Many jocks are without agents and these types are desperate for work and will get on as many horses in the morning as they have to. If you are willing to jog, gallop, and stand horses in the gate more than likely the jock will get the mount. I know trainers here that expect or will ask if they can breeze a 2yo an 1/8 of a mile. That's just plain foolish.

This is the type of place if you ride a horse at night, the jock better make sure he or she stays on top of that horse in the mornings until that horse runs again. If the jock has other horses to get on in the morning and misses that horse he rode at night there is a good chance he or she will be replaced the next time the horse works. A jock may work through the barn and the trainer will ask the jock if he can grab the horse because the regular jock idn't show up. This is why you see many different jocks ride a particular horse. It's not that the trainer wants to change the jock for a better jock. It's just because the jock helped the trainer and the other jock missed the morning work.

I'm sorry I got off the topic but I wanted to point out a few things about what goes on behind the scenes. One last thing, don't forget horses can make jocks look really bad at times and here at CT like many other small racetracks around the country there are plenty of bad horses. This is a bullring and there are plenty of 4.5F races and in these types of sprints the jock won't look the part like you see at the big racetracks. In this short sprints the gates open and you start pumping hard right from the go and continue to pump right to the wire. You go as fast as you can go, as far as you can go. Many horses don't like it and a jock can't really get a horse to settle in these short sprints. It's the strongest and aggressive riders that will win these short sprints but don't forget the jock has to have the horse otherwise it won't matter.

Joe

jotb 09-13-2008 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zman179
Ok, maybe my comments are a little harsh, but Smith definitely has some fundamental flaws. Take for example the 6th race at Charles Town on 9/11 when Smith rode the #1 Last Action. Coming down the stretch the first time, he looks very uncomfortable on the horse compared to the other jockeys around him. He's almost sitting on the saddle. Then as they enter the far turn, you'll see a difference between riders. On the #3, you'll see the jockey hit the horse with the whip while urging him on. However, Smith doesn't appear to have the capabilities to urge and whip at the same time. When he whips, he stops pumping (you'll see it in the stretch.) You have to be able to do both. It's almost as if he's a little too concerned about falling off the horse.

You figure that there has to be something wrong with a rider who has had, as of 9/10, 231 mounts and still has a 10 pound bug. Gemerally, apprentice riders who show some ability are given the chance to show what they've got, if not for the break in the weights. The future is not bright.

Coming down the stretch the first time he's trying to relax the horse and that's something he should be doing since the race was 8.5F. You have to reserve your horse as much as possible in these route races. This maiden horse going into the race had 18 starts with 4 place and 2 show and has been on the bottom for quite some time. He looks like he might be a professional maiden. The track was speed favoring for the most part and this horse had everything his way and still couldn't win. Smith could have been a little more agressive but he did throw a couple of crosses and down the stretch he was hitting left handed and was urging on with his right. I don't believe the rider of the 1 didn't win because of his riding. The 3 was running on stronger than the 1. Luckily the track was speed favoring was the 1 horse was on the inside otherwise he probably would have got beaten more than he did. You claim the jock looked uncomfortable and that could be because he is a very tall rider. I would think he is about 5 foot 9. In regard to his stats, I have to agree they don't look good but you don't have good stats when you ride bad horses and don't have good representation. I'm not saying this kid has the natural talent and probably won't have a career after he loses the bug but if I was his agent, I would try to focus on outfits that win races and get this kid on good horses. If the agent continues to put his rider on bad horses then the rider can't get the necessary exposure. A lot of agents just don't care and seem to be more interested in quantity rather than quality. I rather have my rider on 2 or 3 horses a night that are live rather than have my rider on 7 horses that have no shot.

Joe


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