BRISNET or DRF ?
 

BRISNET or DRF ?

OK, I know this is like Coke or Pepsi …. Or Nikon or Canon …. ( or even Ginger or Mary Ann ;);) ) ….
But which do most prefer and why ?

Does one offer more info, is one more accurate… are Beyer numbers better or worse than Bris Speed Figs ?
Would like to hear your thoughts

Thanks

Neither.

Timeform US is a superior product in just about every way, the information is better at a much better value.

The only thing I would say is that DRF Formulator is a tool that has features you cannot get with Timeform and is a little better for making notes of cards and races. But it is pricey. Also, Timeform PP’s expire the night of the racing so you can’t look at the past performances you purchased after the date.

But the pace and final, and the adjusted figures are just better. I think their charts are better. I think their trainer ratings are better that they generate.

RACE Stats Lens is the best. Basic DRF is a fine product; there are features that Bris offers that are superior to DRF such as AEI Index and sire progeny stats, it's almost FREE but it also has very poor quality control.

Why is Race Stats Lens the best?

I get the bulk of my data from HTR and the are the best. Now having said that I also use the Formulator from time to time for long range trainer stats & I like the layout of the DRF. I grew up using the DRF & I've grown accustomed to the layout. When I began using it you had to open the paper & then tear it in half. That was a long time ago.
I think TimeForm US is really elegantly done but I haven't developed a real feel for it yet.
The Lens product might be good but I don't have the energy or desire to go through the learning curve.
In answer to your question the Beyer figs are better then the Bris figs. Now if you want to compare the Beyer figs to TimeForm or Cramer figs it's not as cut and dried as the Beyer fig only reflects the final time & the other figures reflect additional aspects of the race like pace.
Ya pays your money & ya takes your choice.:)

BRIS PPs are free if you know where to look. That has to count for something.

It has all the features of FORMULATOR and pace projections like TIMEFORM and True Odds algorithm; but, it's more expansive.

Personally I use Equibase Premium PPs. It's less expansive than basic DRF and Ultimate Bris PPs, and it has great Pace and Speed figures along with unique Turf Stats that separate fast and wet track conditions. In addition like Fromulator, it's linked to chart history BUT it also offers European race chart history and I also like how it's presented visually on the computer screen.

Since I mostly handicap stake race cards at $2.50/per card it's fair, I've also grown fond of it and since Equibase took over chart calling business, I find it more dependable than rest.

When bris first started up they had both their's and beyers speed figures. Sometimes beyers was better and sometimes bris was better. I couldn't tell which one was the better and didn't do a long term study of them. I use either one which ever I have available.
I will take Mary Ann.

? now i am just asking. why do you think TimeformUS is so superior to drf or bris? what do you think the differences are?
thanks

If you think the pace and speed figures at Equibase are great, I'll just say good luck.

hi cj you to, and why do you think the figs are better? just asking
and let me throw this out does one think the figs are relative to each other??
drf, bris, T.US, TM, HDW,

I've studied a lot of different figures available probably as closely as anyone. Most do a good job. I have not seen much of HDW or Trackmaster. Equibase, to be frank, stink. Here is a link to the best speed figures of the year:

http://www.equibase.com/static/statistics/eleaders.html

Until Saturday's Travers, Gormley was the top 3yo and even now he is one point behind. Gormley. And it came in the Sham stakes in January.

Richard's Boy is the second fastest dirt sprinter in the country.

There are lots like that, and it gets even worse as you go further down the class ladder. They don't get any human input I don't believe and they miss a lot of things.

well i do think TM and Equibase are the same speed figures. some one will correct me if i am wrong. thanks for the input.

TM and equibase are same.

Even though beyers are flawed they have a human looking at them and I don't think bris does. You get some obvious off numbers with bris. For free they're not bad if you want to casually play. I like to get drf classic or formulator and tfus.

Stats lens has so much stuff and I'm not sure what is put into those stats. Bad stats can throw you off but I might give them another chance as they are the one perk with tvg

now isnt Stats lens supported by Trackmaster? you can buy it on there site. is it there program?

just from what i view. and if i am wrong correct me. after viewing a sample of the stats lens, it reminds me of TMs plus pro. just more clicking on plus pro. it does not give the true odds but it looks like a different format. plus its offered by TM

It is a TM/EQ program which if it uses their figures to make stats...

I have been working with CJ's figures for quite a while now and have used them extensively and they tend to provide a better overall anaysis of a horses performance because they are adjusted for pace.

Plus having the pace figures of the running of the race allows you to deduce your opinions of why horses can be upgraded or downgraded thus allowing for more bets on underlays or just as important bet against underlays.

I also do not think the Beyer figures are as accurate as they used to be for the higher end horses (alw, stakes) and also I think the Beyer figures are useless on turf races.

It depends how you use them? I look at both dirt speed and pace figures together and see if they're significantly higher than the competition. It works!

ok thanks for the answer. makes sense

cj does one have to buy races for the Printing icon to show? on the free daily i did not view the printing icon. thanks

I'll have to ask, I can't check it with account. I get the icon no matter what.

Can't print on the freebies.

Has anybody ever tried Pizzola' s post time daily? I know it's used for BM and valuecapper but I'm curious if anyone has tried it on its own?

What does it matter when Jockey/Trainer is 85% of the game?

here is a oldie but goodie

I'll go with TM and HDW over Bris or Drf, Coke in a bottle, Pepsi in can, Nikon, and Mary Ann.

Track master/euibase
 

To they are the best. Ive compared them to beyers,brisket and timeform. Especially in high class races. Last weeks travers, west coast was a standout off is last race,compared to any one else's based on the track master/ equibase speed figure. I keyed on him for my pick 4 and made a large score.

IMO...the guys at Equibase/Trackmaster should be arrested for impersonating the real figure-makers.

Sorry. I just can't trust someone's opinion if they only have four posts since 2008 and whose English is not his/her native language.

Bris speed figures Sat
 

I did 3 tracks sat. and this is how bris speed figures did. I use the average of the last 2 races in my oddsline program because my data says that is the most predictive factor.

SAR GP Mth
1 $3.40 2 $3.60 5 $5.80
3 $5.40 3 $5.40 6 $6.00
4 $7.40 4 $2.80 7 $3.20
9 $14.40 6 $7.20
11 $2.70 9 $4.60
10 $10.00
I don't know who's speed figures are the best. I have used them all. My friend at the track use equibase and most of the time we have the same horse as the top speed. Bris's speed figures made a profit on the 3 tracks sat,but that doesn't always happen or I would be rich.

To be fair, I've tried handicapping with brisket & it's totally useless as a handicapping tool & if your a vegan, useless for anything. :)

now now the figs are good. there are a few software programs that use them.

IMO...the Equibase figures have been laughable ever since Trackmaster "recalibrated" them about a decade ago. When these figures were calculated on a smaller scale, and the 3-digit figures were practically unheard of, Equibase had the best speed figures around. But now that the figures have been recalibrated by using a different scale, and the 3-digit speed figures are commonplace...Equibase is the proud owner of the worst speed figures known to man.

I wouldn't recommend them to my worst enemy.

My english
 

I'm an American! Excuse me, I was typing fast, I was in a hurry. Don't knock them until you compare all 4 products side by side. That's what I've have done. Yes, I agree they were even better until they change them. I have hit many many big tickets especially using track master flash net product. Instantly narrow down contenders in minutes. Today, I posted my picks at delmar for the late pick4, I hit the late pick3 and late double. Using crappy equibase/track master product. But no,I don't win all the time. But who does!👍🇺🇸

Trackmaster had pretty good figs and pace figs up until that stupid decision to merge with garbage. I was buying daily results for a couple of tacks to get the numbers. After the change, I dropped TM and never looked back at it.

I honestly cannot use figures that have very little human input which Bris and TM do not have.

To each their own though, whatever it takes to win.

Thank you all for your input
 

A big thanks for all the input .... Guess there is more to handicapping data than just DRF or BRISNET ... Will have to look into them

And to those who would choose Mary Ann over Ginger .... Well great minds think alike :):)

[QUOTE=GMB@BP;2216205]I honestly cannot use figures that have very little human input which Bris and TM do not have.

To each their own though, whatever it takes to win.[/QU
Have you ever heard of human error? If humans have anything to do with it there are bias and prejudices and just plain errors that enter into it. I will take computer generated speed figures over any adjusted by humans. I can look at the speed figures for the last 4 race and his best speed at this distance and surface and have a good idea of what the horse is capable in today's race. That is all I require for speed figures.

[quote=jasperson;2216468]To each their own like I said.

I have used the Timeform figures for the better part of 12 years and think they are just better.

Doesnt make me right and anyone else wrong, just my opinion.

Also to be fair, comparing Timeform-Sheets type numbers which include adjustments for various factors to say Beyer or Bris etc which are just a straight figure based on variant number is apples and oranges. So maybe its not a fair discussion.