The 0bama administration comes to mind.......

I disagree with you on this. Using your words, "actively pushing that fact on the street"

Many of these school shootings have been done by kids. This nut in Florida bought his AR15 when he was 18 years old. He was not a street criminal. Unless he hangs out in the hood or high crime areas, he would not even find out about the guns that are for sale illegally. Many of these shooters are living in the suburbs, or nice neighborhoods.

I grew up in one of the worst areas in the country. If you are some white nerdy kid you will probably get beat up before you get near the guy who is selling the guns. Sure, it's easy for gang members, drug dealers, and street thugs to get guns illegally. It's not that easy for a white 18 year old from the suburbs.

Furthermore, every life counts. Tougher gun laws wouldn't stop hunters or law-abiding people from owning guns, but if they cut down murders by 10%, which in turn saves several thousand lives, that's a step in the right direction. Every life counts.

The paranoia about losing our rights is a joke. We have a ton of driving restrictions and laws but we didn't lose our right to drive. Better gun laws would actually protect the second amendment and gun owners, because if these mass murders keep escalating, eventually the public will turn on the politicians and vote the Republicans or any elected official who is weak on gun crime out of office, and then the Democrats, or whoever is in power, will be forced to enact much stricter gun laws. The politicians side with the NRA now because their jobs aren't in jeopardy. But that could change.

This goes deeper than gun laws, though. There are other things that can be done, but the government in general, federal and local, has not responded to these horrific crimes. They've let us down.

I don't think he could have killed as many people if he would have only had a handgun or rifle, there is no need for a citizen to have a military assault rifle, if you feel you need one of those to protect yourself, you must be very scared of something, it seems like guns are more valued than the lives of children, nothing wrong with owning a gun to protect your home and family but that can be accomplished without the use of big guns that can kill many in a short amount of time. Other countries have had mass shootings but not even close to the rate of the U.S, what is the reason for that?

I’m saying he will get the gun anyway. That white kid from the suburb can get a gun as easy as anybody else, because he has cash. That’s all that matters. I worked as a cop in SoCal and in the suburbs in Ohio. When it comes to criminal tools, cash is king. If they want a gun, they will get it. But don’t take my word for it.....I only spent 15 years taking illegal guns off the street.

Here’s an interesting note

http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2018/0...ground-checks/

You are talking out your ass like the typical person who believes more gun laws equal less murders.

Here you go check this out:

http://vaguntrader.com/forums/ubbthr...5s#Post1319841

I could met this guy at the nearest truck stop, show him my I.D. hand him cash and have an evil AR-15 in minutes. Private party to private party sales here do not require background checks or waiting periods.

What's amusing is that you're so annoyed by the results of the poll, that you have to call out the people who dared vote for "doing something" to be more specific, just so you can shoot it down ;) :p

Anyone could google 50 different suggestions for "common sense" gun control in 5 seconds and post them here. You would eagerly criticize and invalidate the ones you could, and ignore the ones you couldn't. So what's the point? You have no interest in "sensible" suggestions, since in your mind, none exist!

But since you're an expert, explain to us how the background check system works. You think the current system is adequate, right?

Say I want to buy a gun from you, and you want to sell it to me. Is there a background check involved in that transaction? Does it depend on what state (geographical, not mental) I'm in?

I am both amused and annoyed by people who ignore reality and say that gun control laws aren't working so we need more gun control laws.

To repeat, gun control laws don't work because the problem isn't guns, it's people. But we can't say that or do anything about it that, because that is politically incorrect. And that's really annoying.

I dare say there were way more guns in the hands of kids back in the day...way back in the day...early 20th century stuff...

How come they never walked into school and killed a whole bunch of their classmates back then?

It was because of the guns, right? :lol::pound::puke:

Elaborate on what could or should be done about the people that would be opposed because of PC.

Gun dealers are licensed by the federal government. They must do a background check through the national data base unless the state they are in issues purchase permits. No check needed if a person has a purchase permit or a carry permit.

Person to person sales are illegal across state lines. Sales within in a state are governed by state law. Some require a background check, some require that the purchaser have a purchase permit, some have no requirement.

It varies by state, here in Virginia private party to private party sales require no waiting periods or background checks, you just are supposed to request a valid state I.D. In California a licensed gun dealer has to broker all sales, including a background check and waiting period.

The background check system is a ruse to compile a gun registry. It’s screwed up half the time. I know several people that were denied purchases for no reason. Including one who was told "your name is too common for an accurate check”

The 2nd Amendment is a right. Do you need a background check to exercise your 1st amendment rights? Hell no. Constitutional carry and purchase should be the law. It supersedes the states. Yet our stupid court system and State legislators think they know better. Americans have the right to own-possess guns. They also have the right to do so wherever they want.

I am personally being disarmed today because I want to attend a concert. The venue restricts my rights, even with a CCW permit, to carry my weapon inside their building because they make over 51% of their revenue from alcohol. This is a law they abide by.

Even though there is tons of evidence that CCW-LTC types commit almost no crime. The legislator cooks up this law to allow lefty venues to enforce their views. This will be the last concert I attend there. I didn’t know before I bought a suite of seats.

The bottom line is bad guys will get their guns no matter what. Whether they are criminals or pissed off high school kids. If you’re motivated enough to walk into a school and kill, you will damn sure find a way to get a gun.

People see this as a bad thing?

You aren't annoyed that none of those people have bothered to post here? Doesn't seem to indicate a lot of conviction or knowledge about the subject.

Would you support a universal background check be required for all private sales?

This I can't deny.
Shows how screwed up things are to have gotten here.

I think maybe those people are upset and disturbed by these mass shootings and wish "something" could be done, and that's what they're indicating with their vote. The fact that they don't necessarily know what that something is shouldn't be held against them.

Yeah, the old "someone" should do "something" deal.
"They" need to take of this.

Maybe we need to start a "national conversation," or "form a committee" to look into "it".

There, that was EZ.

The "something" has nothing to do with guns.

Guns have been around forever. Kids had way more access to guns back in the day. Parents didn't obsess about locking up firearms in the early 20th century...way more kids were taught how to use firearms back then...way more had INTEREST in firearms back then...

Yet, was there a rash of school massacres back then with kids wielding handguns, shotguns, rifles?

There were schools back then, right? There were kids back then, right? There were guns back then, right?

It's not the guns.

Well, the government certainly isn't doing anything about it. I'm still amazed that more schools don't have security and metal detectors. A friend of mine told me yesterday that his New Jersey high school put in metal detectors 45 years ago. Back then it was to stop kids from carrying knives.

Even though I think tougher gun laws would help, I do think that it won't help enough and that the schools have to check for weapons. If my children were still in school, I would not be comfortable without it. This problem is only going to get worse.

It reminds me of plane hijackings in the mid 60's. 130 planes were hijacked in a four year period. I was a teenager and I couldn't believe that the airlines and gov't just let these criminals get away with it. Alll they had to do was put locks on the cockpit doors and that would have stopped most of it. And then we got 9/11. That's what happens when you let criminals get their way.

That's interesting since you were a cop, and I don't doubt it's true in some areas and instances. I don't know how much an AR-15 cost on the street, but in some neighborhoods if an 18 year old white kid has $500 in his pocket and goes walking around trying to buy a gun, he probably has a better chance of getting robbed and beaten than he has of buying a gun. The only people who have cash in their pocket in those areas already have a gun, or are in a gang. I know in East New York, where I grew up, you did not walk around the street with money in your pocket.

No gun control on the Federal level will occur in your lifetime, face it and the fact that in realty is that there is no wind at your back just because of this last horrible thing that happened. Soon enough something even more horrible will occur without guns, maybe not in the United States. Exactly where and when is a crap shoot to guess but not that something will. Getting a grip on young minds might seem a tough task to some, but may prove much easier than other things we will face in the next few years.

What if, say, a guy beats his wife and gives her a concussion and a few broken bones. Should he be allowed to buy a gun?

JR, NO air should be given to these gun grabbers or their stupid poll.

It already did, the Assault Weapon Ban of 1994. It expired after 10 years and was not renewed because of public opposition and because it was totally ineffective.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federa...he_legislation

Clinton did pass the assault rifle ban. I think it depends on the voters. The next time the dems get control of congress they may pass gun control.

Think about it, you live in a state that half of the left wing is packing. The third rail is alive and charged.

This poll seems like a good barometer, 50/50 split. But if children keep getting gun down in schools, that could change. Even if the gun rights advocates are correct and tougher gun laws won't help at all, once the public gets to 58% or so for tougher gun laws, then the politicians will do what they have to do to keep their jobs. I do know quite a few gun owners who still think we should have tougher gun laws, not everyone who owns a gun thinks the current laws are smart.

Maybe it was the guns that stopped them back then.
Everyone carried and everyone knew it.

Did we have an gun-free zones back then?

One of the questions on the ATF Form 4413 that is used when purchasing a firearm is "Have you ever been convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence?"

A felony is an automatic disqualifier. I have no idea if a misdemeanor conviction is reported to NICS.

For those interested who've never purchased a firearm, here is the form that every purchaser of a new firearm from a licensed dealer must complete. Once the form is completed, the dealer phones the information to the NICS data center, where the instant background check is conducted.

ATF Form 4413

Personally, it is my belief (and I'm about as anti-gun control as one can get), that the mass shooting phenomenon can best be addressed by expanding on Par. 11(f) regarding mental health. It has become increasingly apparent that psychotropic drugs are a causal factor in a very high percentage of these events. However, due to HIPAA laws, the reporting from prescribing physicians to NICS could be problematic.

Mule

Pandy,
We had school shootings during 0bama - and they had both houses to boot. no common sense laws were passed.

WHERE WERE NANCY and CHUCKIE back then, horsey, Dan?

WHY did the dems let the nation down by FAILING to take advantage of the power they held to pass common sense gun laws?

You forget that the NRA owns Congress. At least that's what I keeping hearing from the Chicken Littles on the gun issue.

The fact is that when gun control is at issue, a lot of people in red states become one-issue voters, based on a candidate's stand on gun control. On the other hand, those in favor of gun control are less likely to be one-issue voters and less likely to vote against a candidate solely because of a pro-gun stance.

Yep, Nancy, Reid, they didn't come through for the libs on this matter, no doubt about that, I agree with you. But, if the polls were different that would change and if children keep getting shot, the polls will change, even if tougher gun laws won't help.

I think the focus will shift to higher quality education evolving into a better grasp of helping all students grow into healthy productive young people. Spotting problem students and rounding them whole instead of just tossing out clunkers. Schools that do not measure up to better standards should lose funding fast, we have to look into the mirror and see that the problem is us in our thirst for mediocre performance.

Certainly not until the federal Dept. of Education is abolished.

Whatever problems are causing the violence and mental illness in society will hopefully work itself out over time. But that doesn't solve the problem now. When Guiliani took over NY, he stopped crime of all sorts in its tracks, quickly. The East NY section, one sq mile, went form 1800 murders a year to 150. There were a lot of people that thought he would fail because of the "you can't stop evil people" mentality. Crime can be stopped with good laws, good security, and law enforcement. Guiliani made it much tougher to commit and get away with crime.

Guiliani is the one hidden gem inside team Trump, many secrets will surface because of his work and many will die with him when it is his time. Because of this I fully expect a serious backfire on the left in their strategy, not that this belongs inside this thread.

all this gun control talk is election year crap. the dems have had numerous chances to pass more strict laws and haven't. it's all smoke and mirrors. the bottom line is you can pass all the laws you want and you aren't going to stop people from killing. who the hell you kidding. they dems don't even care enough about gun killings to even make a feeble attempt in chicago. so they have zero credibility. and your just as dumb as they are if you actually believe they desire to do anything. Politicians have already trampled on the second amendment enough. Any more and they're in for a big ass rude awakening.

Somebody better launch a Congressional investigation into this to make sure the Ruskies aren't behind this too:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/st...uns/ar-BBJfLXf