Breeders cup expands to 2 days
 

I didn't know this was a serious consideration but looks like now its official. The one good thing is the 3 new races they are adding are all on the first day, with the traditional BC races still being run together.

The new races are

Juvenile Turf
Filly and mare sprint
Dirt mile run at 1 mile and 70 yards.

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/hor...ory?id=2723725

Note
 

It is interesting to note that 3 of the 6 new races will be for 2 yr olds.

Looking at the old thread "new BC races"
 

I swear the racing industry is reading and taking ideas from Paceadvantage's "General Racing" forum!!

LOL!
 

And that Avioli says the races, including the sonn-to-be 7f felmale sprint, will "help fill some holes"!LOL!!
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"09-02-2006, 03:47 AM #6
kenwoodallpromos
Registered User


Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,755
vCash: 1300 Fill in the gap

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Fill in the gap with a 7f dirt mare and filly.

It's about time they added a filly and mare sprint. Very few fillies and mares can sprint with the big boys (exceptions, of course, include Safely Kept and Xtra Heat).

I don't think the dirt mile was entirely necessary (NYRA is probably mad; it may take some of the meaning off the Cigar Mile), but the 2YO turf race was another nice add.

I'm glad they added the 2yo turf. This will be a nice complement to the 3yo series that Colonial and Arlington has developed and will help to bring more international horses to these shores. The other 2 I really don't care about to be honest. I know the mile is a popular one, but it will gut the Cigar Mile to be sure, but then again several historic races have already been killed by the BC, but I think in interest of the sport it may be better to have the focus more on BC day than spread thin everywhere. The only thing I would have really wished for would be a true stayers event, 2m turf. Turf seems on the upswing these days so maybe we will get back there. Just glad there isn't a turf sprint....

That's one I would have liked!

A second day for the Breeders cup is like the 2nd day for the NFL draft, it just doesn't compare to day 1. If they want to add 3 races put it with the others, lots of tracks have more than 9 races per day. The breeders cup is a special day, it gets all the media attention, how much coverage would day 2 get ? maybe none, also the breeders cup is run on a saturday, who wants 3 races on a sunday when the football season is just picking up steam.Bad idea.

I think either of the two bolded additional stakes would have have been preferable as a BC event to the F&M Sprint. What I find troubling about such a race is is that it dilutes the competition of the BC Sprint where F&Ms are already competitive. Let's be sure to add Very Subtle to Bubble's list.

IMO a better option would have been an open BC 7f on dirt even with the new BC Mile on dirt (which I'd have preferred to be at the more commonly run 1-1/16 m in 2007). There have been many top class horses who can't beat the best at 6f, but were virtually unbeatable at 7f. Birdonawire and Langfuhr come to mind immediately. Honest Lady could have bested the boys at 7f.

The Cigar might become even more popular as a champion-confirming race for the new mile division much as the DeFrancis supported Thor's Echo's credentials for an Eclipse Award. Certainly the Met Mile winner should receive an automatic berth in the new BC race.

I, myself, am not crazy about 2days. A lot of people work friday afternoons too. They could easilly make a whole day of it saturday.

It seems to me the three new races would have to be run at night for maximum exposure on a Friday -- probably starting at 9:00 PM EST for a prime-time Pick Three. If the weather is good, it should be great for the local economy.

In fact, why not swap the Juvenile Filly and Distaff for the new Juvenile Turf and Dirt Mile and make Friday Ladies Night.

BTW the single best promotion to increase on-track attendance outside the BC might be to either not charge admission for women or else give them a bet-only wager voucher. It might be interesting to see if there was a simultaneous increase in cross-dressing. :D

Glad They Are Listening
 

Now if we can get them to follow instructions. No, as long as they are trying .I would have a different list of races and I am not thrilled with two days but I am willing to give it a chance.


Don't forget Soviet Problem.

Man that horse was fast!

i just worry that these races will take out some of the interesting horses that would run on saturday. Would johannesburg or arazi have run in the BC Juv? Would safely kept have tried the sprint? (especially if she would have only been eligible for an eclipse award as champion F&M Sprinter). I would think these races would be better 3 weeks before the BC than the day before, but who knows. More categories, eclipse or BC, dilute competition on the racetrack which is already diluted enough.

Also what about grading? They are clearly meant as "cut below" races, are they going to be G2?

The Dirt Mile. Run over a mile and seventy yards.
Duh?
How about the Turf Sprint, run over a mile on dirt?

A 1m70 race for 3yo and up is rather redundant, as they already have a dirt route.

Two days - one beingn a Friday.....I think the idea sucks wind. Cut out Muttonchops and all the stupid celebrity interviews and the whole card fits in one day.

NFL pathway - dilute the product unitl it is just plain dull and boring.

DRF gets to sell you two papers now?

:ThmbDown::ThmbDown::ThmbDown::ThmbDown:

Just as long as they don't change the saddlecloths...:rolleyes:

I agree, I would rather see 1 HUGE day rather than 2 big days

Don't forget Very Subtle. Back in those days some tracks had their own pools. I had Very Subtle at over 20/1. I was the only person at EVD who was NOT yelling for Groovy. :D

I think the two days could work, but not over a Friday/Saturday. They're trying to get crowds like Kentucky Oaks Day does the Friday before the Derby, but it's a different time of year. However, the Breeders Cup already draws crowds and handle and is the only racing event that can be really be "expanded", so I can see why they would try it. In the future I could see 12 or 14 BC races spread out over Saturday and Sunday. It might lead to two days of $90 million handle each over one day of $120 million. If that doesn't happen, they can always go back to one day.

I think the Friday before would outdraw the NFL Sunday the day after.

Here's a crazy idea: keep the one day format, but run the races at 2 venues, Ohio-style. Sure, the horsemen will hate it, since they can't be in two places at once, but let's face it... if the races were 15 minutes apart instead of 30, it'd be a big step forward in maintaining the interest level of the viewing audience and betting publc that they're trying to cultivate. In my mind, that's more important than kowtowing to Todd Pletcher's desire to saddle all of his 27 entries personally.

I think they are modeling this after the Kentucky Oaks/Derby where they get huge crowds on Friday. There is no way they are going against the NFL.

It is a bit much with almost an hour between races. That is a good reason to try to get another venue involved. Even a half hour between races would seem shorter with the current format.

Jim

15 Minutes Of Fame Maiden BC Stakes sponsored by Polaroid!!
 

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Seriously, fear is polls would not be as big. How about Friday Nite?

Can't... Nanny 911 is on.
Seriously though, people can adapt to having 15 fewer minutes to bet. And if not, where do you draw the line? Why cut it off at only 30 minutes? If there were 2 hours between races, you'd probably get a few more bucks into the pool too.
Also, the shortterm sacrifice of some money in the pool on a given race might be worth it if the revamped timing kept the TV ratings higher and kept more people interested longer.

I disagree if televised on cable exclusively.

Hell, I'll even give up "Law and Order." :D

Talked into it!
 

______OK. I agree- but how about 1 venue and alternate dirt (or rubber) and turf on the same track?

Explain. Regardless of who televises it, don't higher ratings always mean they can sell the broadcast rates for a higher price? And if more people stick around longer, doesn't that mean more money in the pools in the later races? Why does any of this depends on what channel it's on?

I don't think it's the surface the race is being run on that keeps the interval from being 15 minutes... it's the logistics of getting all the horses and jockeys suited up and on and off the track quickly enough, without running into bottlenecks in the paddock and holding areas.

I believe the time between races facilitates the building of the wagering pools to record levels. Even with one hour between races I see many folks being shut out on BC day due to reasons besides they were not ready to bet.

The problem with racing coverage being available only on a cable network is that not everyone uses cablevision services. You eliminate more than half of the available TV sets when you only serve cable subscribers.

Murph

Co-Sign!!!

That's probably because they didn't get on line until 5 minutes to post time. Seriously, with advance wagering, there's no reason to ever get shut out, unless you're waiting to see the horses in the post parade, which means these people stand just as much chance of being shut out regardless of the length of time between races.

Cutting time between the reaces would not be good. As someone who sat in the cheaper seats last November at Churchill I have to say that the windows were slammed. As much as I hate waiting so long between races when I am watching them on TV, it is really needed for the on track patrons.

Do it all on one day!!
 

A second day for the Breeders cup is like the 2nd day for the NFL draft, it just doesn't compare to day 1. If they want to add 3 races put it with the others, lots of tracks have more than 9 races per day.



Couldn't agree more! Breeders Cup Day is our Superbowl! Every opportunity to add races and make it bigger and better should take place! I assume that these races weren't added because ESPN wouldn't give us more air time? Certainly can't think of any other possible reason that they wouldn't just "add them on" :ThmbDown: Boom

As others have pointed out, two days of enormous handle are better than one. That's the goal, which is why they created a second day instead of making the first day longer. Not sure if it will be rejected by horseplayers, but that's the goal.

I can't understand why anyone would be opposed to the overall plan, even if they disagree with some of the details. Experimentation should be welcomed, not discouraged.

Perhaps introducing a lower-minimum Pick Six -- at least on Friday -- would generate increased interest and participation in that pool.

I would prefer they move the 2 non BC races--races 1 and 2--to Friday and have a whole card of BC races.

Friday would still be a day of stakes races comparable to the NFL league championships followed by the Breeder's Cup races, our Super Bowl.

Good idea, JohnG....the whole idea of the BC was a championship day. Spreading it out makes no sense to me at all. It dilutes the product.

Having thought about this change, I've come to the opinion it's a bad idea. I believe it will dilute the entire BC contest and will eventually make the races look no different than the NBA play offs.

Having said that, I'd like to see the baby races all on the first day and to group the remaining races on the second day. As it is now, I don't play the any of the baby races. Putting the more playable races together on the second day will make a more enjoyable challange, at least for me.

I have mixed feelings about this proposed change but in the end I am against it. It seems to me to just water down the competition making every race even more specialized. I always like the quesiton for horsemen of where to put the inbetween horse for say the sprint to mile turf to classic, now everybody has there own type of race so these horses won't be running against each other anymore. As others have mentioned, we won't see the Very Subtles, Safely Kepts, and Xtra Heats anymore going against the best at good odds, now they will be odds on in their new all filly and mare race.

I always liked a horse like Precisionist, who won the Sprint and was also competitive in the Classic now I assume a horse like him goes in the mile exclusively and goes off 3-5 there instead of what 3-1 or 4-1 in the sprint and higher when he ran in the Classic plus we lose the challenge of seeing if a horse like him can stretch to a mile and a quarter or run with the fastest horses in the world at 6F.

What will winning the Mile dirt prove for year end awards as well? Does the Sprint winner get the higher push toward an Eclispe or the Mile dirt winner? If you are adding a mile dirt race fine, just don't put it on the same level as the Classic and Sprint, make it a $250,000 race like the others indicated on the Friday card so the true champions can compete in the established races not this new one.

We get what over 300 days or more of watered down racing over the course of the year at least in stakes races, the biggies always avoiding each other, so now with this BC expansion horsemen are given more races to not compete their best against each other. I predict field size in specific races will also drop with this dilution and make for less betting opportunities. The horsemen and tracks wanted it I assume and got it but I don't think it does much for fans of racing - at least this fan. Just my two cents. :ThmbDown:

Wiley, I agree with your point about watering things down. That's why I liked a 2yo turf but not the other 2. That is because a 2yo turf filled a void and is a strong complement to the the growing 3yo turf series rather than being a detriment to what is already out there (Dirt Mile/NYRA's Cigar Mile) or basically a redundancy. That is why the only other race I would have liked to see was a stayers event, 2 to 2 1/2 miles on the turf. That also would have filled a void on a so called world championship day. We don't have many of these type of horses here, but the world sure does and it may have encouraged more of that sort of thing here once again. That also would have filled a void. So I'm happy to see the 2yo turf, but the other 2 do nothing for me and honestly I hate the idea of the dirt mile for the reasons you list.