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-   -   Trump signs tariffs (http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=143679)

elysiantraveller 03-22-2018 10:17 AM

EU is going to be Exempt...
 
Shocked... shocked I say! :rolleyes:

EU and others may get tariff exemptions, US trade official says

And from across the pond today...

Europe expects to escape US metal tariffs

On second thought... "we'll pass on a trade war" is the message from the WH.

Announcement expected today.

classhandicapper 03-22-2018 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller (Post 2292848)
Shocked... shocked I say! :rolleyes:

EU and others may get tariff exemptions, US trade official says

And from across the pond today...

Europe expects to escape US metal tariffs

On second thought... "we'll pass on a trade war" is the message from the WH.

Announcement expected today.

Are you really foolish enough to think Trump wants or wanted a trade war?

He's a businessman that has made tons of money via trade.

Did you ever think that Trump makes threats as part of his negotiating tactics to get to where he really wants but the media is so dumb and consumed with hate they still don't understand that?

Instead they use it to attack him (and the other haters just gobble it up) before the final deals are in place?

I mean, if at the end of this we come away with a few tarriffs in situations where people are clearly trading unfairly and/or countries like Mexico, Canada, and China come to the table to renegotiate aspects of NAFTA and other deals to our advantage, the result would be brilliant.

I still don't see anything to complain about.

I think everything is going great so far.

We finally have someone in office that's not bent over taking it where the sun doesn't shine on trade. So far nothing out of line has been done and he has them all talking. If he moves any of these deals a little to our advantage, that's massively better than anyone has done after decades of utter stupidity taking it in the butt.

Clocker 03-22-2018 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by classhandicapper (Post 2292871)
Are you really foolish enough to think Trump wants or wanted a trade war?

He said he does, and his supporters believed him. So are you saying that Trump is just another sleazy politician, lying to voters to get elected?

Quote:

He's a businessman that has made tons of money via trade.
Hint: NYC real estate is not subject to competition from foreign imports.

Hint: Trump merchandise, such as his clothing line, is all manufactured off-shore.

elysiantraveller 03-22-2018 01:04 PM

And the deal is struck...
 
Or lack of deal...

Or anything really...

Just a big circus.

EU and six other countries exempted from US metals tariffs

Quote:

US imports of steel last year totalled $33bn.

But if the countries granted exemptions are removed from that total - including Canada and Mexico, whose exemptions had already been announced - then less than a third of US steel imports would be subject to tariffs.
Surprised us free-traders saw this coming. :rolleyes:

Awaiting the Trump spin machine to cycle up.

FantasticDan 03-22-2018 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller (Post 2292942)
Awaiting the Trump spin machine to cycle up.

http://www.departmentofmemes.com/wp-...7/4d-chess.jpg

elysiantraveller 03-22-2018 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by classhandicapper (Post 2292871)
Did you ever think that Trump makes threats as part of his negotiating tactics to get to where he really wants but the media is so dumb and consumed with hate they still don't understand that?

No, because it didn't accomplish anything aside from piss off allies.

It was a short-sighted punitive policy with no clear objective. Its been treated as such by the EU.

But I'm not the one that says trade wars are "easy to win"... I would argue they aren't necessary.

I feel the global economy is a bit trickier than a tweet.

elysiantraveller 03-22-2018 01:37 PM

WH Trade Policy decisions in action...
 
1 Attachment(s)
:pound:

Clocker 03-22-2018 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller (Post 2292958)
No, because it didn't accomplish anything aside from piss off allies.

And the vast majority of US corporations.

https://cdn.static-economist.com/sit...324_WOC545.png

https://www.economist.com/blogs/grap..._term=20180321

classhandicapper 03-22-2018 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clocker (Post 2292897)
He said he does, and his supporters believed him. So are you saying that Trump is just another sleazy politician, lying to voters to get elected?

Hint: NYC real estate is not subject to competition from foreign imports.

Hint: Trump merchandise, such as his clothing line, is all manufactured off-shore.

He doesn't want a trade war and never said he does.

He said it would be easy to win a trade war because we are running such huge trade deficits with many countries they have more or lose than we do.

I think he's obviously correct that they have more to lose than we do, but whether they blink and come to the table for negotiations remains to be seen.

The very fact that he does a a lot of importing for his clothing line is telling you he knows very well that the playing field is not level. That's why jobs and investment have been moving away from the US. That's what he's trying to fix. If you fix the trade deficits, that means we are exporting more and importing less. That means we are manufacturing more, adding more jobs, and investing in ourselves instead of slowly selling ourselves off to foreigners that hold all those dollars.

classhandicapper 03-22-2018 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller (Post 2292958)
No, because it didn't accomplish anything aside from piss off allies.

It was a short-sighted punitive policy with no clear objective. Its been treated as such by the EU.

But I'm not the one that says trade wars are "easy to win"... I would argue they aren't necessary.

I feel the global economy is a bit trickier than a tweet.

I don't know if trade wars are easy to win, but they are not all created equal. If you are running a several hundred billion dollar deficit with someone else, you have massive leverage over them because they stand to lose a LOT more than you if they don't renegotiate.

He's been trying to renegotiate trade deals pretty much since the first day he appointed Wilbur Ross. This is part of the overall trade strategy to reduce or eliminate the trade deficits. He's the first person in politics to have enough of brain to know it's a problem other than Ross Perot.

We will see if he makes progress. It will be tough.

The accumulated deficits while we've had pinheads in charge give foreigners leverage over us in that they can threaten to sell our bonds, cause rates to rise, and put us into recession. That's one of the reasons I say this whole free trade experiment was a nightmare for us. China, Japan, Saudi Arabia and others can pull the plug on our country if they don't like our policy on anything, but of course they can't do it with screwing themselves.

Clocker 03-22-2018 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by classhandicapper (Post 2293005)
He doesn't want a trade war and never said he does.

Actions speak louder than words.

Quote:

The very fact that he does a a lot of importing for his clothing line is telling you he knows very well that the playing field is not level. That's why jobs and investment have been moving away from the US. That's what he's trying to fix.
So he didn't want to pay the price of standing up for his principles, but he wants us to pay it.

Quote:

If you fix the trade deficits, that means we are exporting more and importing less. That means we are manufacturing more, adding more jobs, and investing in ourselves instead of slowly selling ourselves off to foreigners that hold all those dollars.
No, it doesn't. It means that consumer prices go up and consumer buying power decreases. The added jobs in the protected industries are insignificant compared to the lost jobs in the down stream companies that use the goods, steel in this case, as inputs.

How is getting German auto companies to invest here and create jobs for Americans, both in those plants and in the provision of products and services to them, "selling ourselves off"?

classhandicapper 03-22-2018 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clocker (Post 2292976)
And the vast majority of US corporations.

https://cdn.static-economist.com/sit...324_WOC545.png

https://www.economist.com/blogs/grap..._term=20180321

Yeah, lots of people that got rich off unbridled free trade are for unbridled free trade and everyone that lost their job, standard of living, or that pays taxes to pay interest on bonds that are owned by Communist Chinese and Saudi Arabian sheikhs should be against it, but they are brain washed.

classhandicapper 03-22-2018 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clocker (Post 2293017)
Actions speak louder than words.

So he didn't want to pay the price of standing up for his principles, but he wants us to pay it.

No, it doesn't. It means that consumer prices go up and consumer buying power decreases. The added jobs in the protected industries are insignificant compared to the lost jobs in the down stream companies that use the goods, steel in this case, as inputs.

How is getting German auto companies to invest here and create jobs for Americans, both in those plants and in the provision of products and services to them, "selling ourselves off"?

1. The tariffs are part of a process to get fairer deals. We don't now if they will work.

2. He did what any sensible person would do. The idea is to change the math so a sensible person would stay in the US instead of importing. It's not to be an idiot and invest in the US and lose.

2. Whatever we lose as a country because of higher prices is MUCH LESS than we would gain in jobs and wealth invested back in the US instead of overseas. There is only a benefit to both sides when the trade is roughly equal. Since we don't have equal trade, we are net losing. Of course, the losers are all the unemployed, underemployed, and taxpayers with no power and the winners were Wall St, large corporations and people like me whose job did not leave and who was smart enough to invest in global corporations and Wall st to get rich on this fiasco.

Clocker 03-22-2018 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by classhandicapper (Post 2293023)
The tariffs are part of a process to get fairer deals. We don't now if they will work.

A fair deal is one that both sides voluntarily agree to. End of story.

We do know that tariffs don't work, never have.

Quote:

Whatever we lose as a country because of higher prices is MUCH LESS than we would gain in jobs and wealth invested back in the US instead of overseas.
We lost a net 200,000 jobs when Bush imposed steel tariffs on China. Insanity is repeating the same action while expecting a different result. How can we expect Trump's tariffs to have a different result than Bush's?

Running a trade deficit by definition means running a capital surplus, which means an increase in money invested in the US instead of overseas.

elysiantraveller 03-22-2018 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clocker (Post 2293036)
Running a trade deficit by definition means running a capital surplus, which means an increase in money invested in the US instead of overseas.

If you break our capital investment down by population its around $12k per person in this country.

Dwarves the rest of the world.


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