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-   -   Jacob deGrom... (http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=164749)

thaskalos 05-11-2021 07:53 PM

Jacob deGrom...
 
It may not be accurate to call Jacob deGrom an "underrated" pitcher...he did after all, win back-to-back Cy Youngs in 2019 and 2020 (he finished 3rd in the voting last year). But I feel that something needs to be said about his performance so far THIS year...which threatens to label him as the best pitcher that baseball history has ever kept stats on.

Consider this:

So far this year...here is what deGrom has accomplished:

Innings................40
Earned Runs.........3
Hits.....................17
Home Runs...........2
Walks...................7
Strike Outs...........65
ERA....................0.68

And for the more "Sybermetric" among us:

ERA+.........567
FIP............1.03
WHIP........0.600

Absolutely incredible, IMO...and by FAR the best pitching numbers that we've ever seen. :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

Marshall Bennett 05-12-2021 06:29 AM

If only he played on a team that could hit.

Johnny V 06-06-2021 09:21 AM

And the beat goes on. I thought it was a good bet at -111. Another dominating performance by deGrom.

JustRalph 06-06-2021 10:12 AM


pandy 06-06-2021 10:33 AM

Truly amazing.

Secondbest 06-06-2021 03:23 PM

7 innings 3 hits 0 runs 11 strikeouts. Yesterday. Vs,. Padres

Secondbest 06-07-2021 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thaskalos (Post 2722418)
It may not be accurate to call Jacob deGrom an "underrated" pitcher...he did after all, win back-to-back Cy Youngs in 2019 and 2020 (he finished 3rd in the voting last year). But I feel that something needs to be said about his performance so far THIS year...which threatens to label him as the best pitcher that baseball history has ever kept stats on.

Consider this:

So far this year...here is what deGrom has accomplished:

Innings................40
Earned Runs.........3
Hits.....................17
Home Runs...........2
Walks...................7
Strike Outs...........65
ERA....................0.68

And for the more "Sybermetric" among us:

ERA+.........567
FIP............1.03
WHIP........0.600

Absolutely incredible, IMO...and by FAR the best pitching numbers that we've ever seen. :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

Era down to 0.62. Whip 0.569. 93k 8 walks. 25 hits 58 inning
Best start in MLB history . Even surpassing Dutch Leonard from 1914 deadball era.

Rex Phinney 06-07-2021 06:08 PM

He's pretty clearly the best in the league right now.



That being said he has started 9 games.


7 of them against teams below .500


Arizona- Twice
Colorado- Twice
Washington
Miami
Philadelphia


*Full disclosure* I'm a huge Padres fan and was already tired of hearing about how good the NL East was before the season even started. Throw in the always sizeable coverage the sorry Yankees always get and you have a pretty jaded fan on your hands.


Nothing matters in Baseball this year except the Dodgers and Padres. Nothing. Write it down.

Marshall Bennett 06-07-2021 07:16 PM

Sad thing is that the way starters are pampered and restricted in their performance, pitchers like DeGrom will never see their real potential. Those days have ended. Games started are down, innings pitched are down by a third, a bruised pinkie is a missed start.
Pitching has always been the highlight of my baseball interest. Now it totally sucks. One would think that with just a handful of hitters batting over .300 this season, pitchers are on fire. No, pitchers simply cheat better than ever before. There are a number of new inventions (foreign substance) that are nearly impossible to detect. One is a super-glue variant. Used sparingly, it last thru an inning and be reapplied in the dugout. If ump makes a trip to the mound, it can readily be removed with a swipe of the fingers on uniform seams or cleats if need be. This new cheat increases the spin rate on a slider or sinker by up to 25%. Note the low era's of the current leaders in both leagues, and the numbers are going lower.
The game has become a joke. Having a lineup of fine sluggers isn't jack-shit if they can barely see the ball that's thrown.

thaskalos 06-07-2021 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rex Phinney (Post 2729643)
Nothing matters in Baseball this year except the Dodgers and Padres. Nothing. Write it down.

You know that they are both in the National League...right?

olddaddy 06-08-2021 07:54 AM

In these times its very difficult to praise any pitcher for their current accomplishments.

https://www.si.com/mlb/2021/06/04/st...ds-daily-cover

dnlgfnk 06-08-2021 11:06 AM

Not so sure.

2021 features historic lows in OBA (.312) not seen since '72 (.311).
BA .237 lowest in 53 years, equals 1968's .237, the "Year of the Pitcher".
Strikeout rate per 9 IP the highest ever...8.99
Hits per 9 (7.84) lowest since dead ball era1908 (7.75).

If we want to normalize sabermetrically, I'll wait to see if DeGrom (currently 3.2) equals Pedro's 1999 WAR of 11.6 (Fangraphs).

Rex Phinney 06-08-2021 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thaskalos (Post 2729689)
You know that they are both in the National League...right?


Well aware. It changes nothing relating to my previous statement.

Rex Phinney 06-08-2021 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by olddaddy (Post 2729751)
In these times its very difficult to praise any pitcher for their current accomplishments.

https://www.si.com/mlb/2021/06/04/st...ds-daily-cover


MLB front office is the dumbest bunch of SOB's around.


How can a league that went through the steroid scandal allow itself to fall into another such crisis?



The same group of idiots trying to shorten the games and putting a guy at second base in extra innings to create excitement are allowing pitchers to turn the games into strikeout parties.


If they just get rid of the sticky stuff the excitement issue will be no more. If guys like Acuna, Tatis and Vladdy Jr are this fun to watch with doctored baseballs imagine if they ever level the playing field.

thaskalos 06-08-2021 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rex Phinney (Post 2729866)
Well aware. It changes nothing relating to my previous statement.

Well...there is going to be at least one team from the OTHER League that has to "matter" this year...NO?

Rex Phinney 06-08-2021 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thaskalos (Post 2729880)
Well...there is going to be at least one team from the OTHER League that has to "matter" this year...NO?


Anther team will play in the World Series.



They won't matter.


Have you watched the 7 games the Dodgers and Padres played already this year? The other 28 teams are nothing more than an opening act, an appetizer.

olddaddy 06-08-2021 08:37 PM

https://twitter.com/snyyankees/statu...007778821?s=20


Good at loading it up.

I wonder if the OP was singing the praises for Sammy Sosa in 1998.

Its easy to be spoofed in this game.

thaskalos 06-08-2021 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rex Phinney (Post 2729903)
Anther team will play in the World Series.



They won't matter.


Have you watched the 7 games the Dodgers and Padres played already this year? The other 28 teams are nothing more than an opening act, an appetizer.

The Padres are NOTHING in front of the Astros.

dnlgfnk 06-08-2021 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rex Phinney (Post 2729903)
Anther team will play in the World Series.



They won't matter.


Have you watched the 7 games the Dodgers and Padres played already this year? The other 28 teams are nothing more than an opening act, an appetizer.

Dodgers and Padres are currently a cumulative 35.76% in Vegas to win series, in a small sample tournament where the luck factor in baseball is squarely between the relative certainty of basketball and the unpredictability of hockey.

Might work out for your claim at about the same rate a 7-5 shot wins, but the cumulative chances of the WSox (11.11), Mets (10.0), Yanks (9.09), and Rays (6.67) have a 1.11% edge. Throw in the Stros for a 7.36% edge, from numbers crunchers who don't like to lose.

Valuist 06-09-2021 08:56 AM

It will be interesting to see how dominant some of these top level guys will be going forward, with much more scrutiny on the doctoring of baseballs. Do not be shocked if some "come back to earth". Not necessarily speaking of DeGrom, but really anyone who's been dominant in recent years, or improved sharply. Several Astros pitchers in recent years have seen their spin rates increase considerably, along with a well known pitcher who was very critical of Astros pitchers.

Rex Phinney 06-09-2021 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thaskalos (Post 2729914)
The Padres are NOTHING in front of the Astros.


The Astros are good no doubt. I don't think their pitching will hold up long term and they won't miss George Springer until it really matters.


That being said they will play lots of games against the Rangers, Angels and Mariners, so they will win alot of games.

Rex Phinney 06-09-2021 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dnlgfnk (Post 2729942)
Dodgers and Padres are currently a cumulative 35.76% in Vegas to win series, in a small sample tournament where the luck factor in baseball is squarely between the relative certainty of basketball and the unpredictability of hockey.

Might work out for your claim at about the same rate a 7-5 shot wins, but the cumulative chances of the WSox (11.11), Mets (10.0), Yanks (9.09), and Rays (6.67) have a 1.11% edge. Throw in the Stros for a 7.36% edge, from numbers crunchers who don't like to lose.


It would certainly take someone getting lucky for the Dodgers or Padres to not win it all.
I laugh at every team on your list except the Sox and Astros.

dnlgfnk 06-09-2021 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rex Phinney (Post 2730022)
It would certainly take someone getting lucky for the Dodgers or Padres to not win it all.
I laugh at every team on your list except the Sox and Astros.

If Fanduel Sportsbook (Fairmount Park) had opened in time, I would have driven over to bet the Padres at 7-1 to win the World Series, because I saw it as an overlay, not because they were 50% to win along with the Dodgers.

thaskalos 06-09-2021 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dnlgfnk (Post 2730035)
If Fanduel Sportsbook (Fairmount Park) had opened in time, I would have driven over to bet the Padres at 7-1 to win the World Series, because I saw it as an overlay, not because they were 50% to win along with the Dodgers.

Ten days ago I bet on the Astros to win the AL Pennant...at 7-1 odds. Does THIS seem like an overlay to you?

Rex Phinney 06-09-2021 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thaskalos (Post 2730043)
Ten days ago I bet on the Astros to win the AL Pennant...at 7-1 odds. Does THIS seem like an overlay to you?


That's probably a pretty good bet on your part.


The AL IMO is not very good. The Astros have developed some good players behind the headline names, they probably don't get enough credit for that.


The Red Sox can't keep this up
The Yankees don't have enough pitching
The Rays don't have enough hitting
The Indians won't be happy until they sell enough parts off to miss the playoffs
It feels like La Russa is not the right guy to lead in Chicago
The A's are probably good enough to make some noise, but won't push their chips in at trade time like they should

dnlgfnk 06-09-2021 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thaskalos (Post 2730043)
Ten days ago I bet on the Astros to win the AL Pennant...at 7-1 odds. Does THIS seem like an overlay to you?

Stros are 6.25 % to take it all. On my scale that's about 11 or 12-1. Key is to make playoffs (1-20 odds of doing so). Top WAR offense to date, and Greinke, Garcia and Valdez in a short series very capable IMO.

I wouldn't frown at your bet.

Marshall Bennett 06-09-2021 05:20 PM

Only the Dodgers have scored more run than the Astros. On the other hand their pitching staff is a shell of its former self.
7-1 seems reasonable.

Secondbest 06-11-2021 09:46 PM

Tonight against the Padres.
6 innings 0 runs 1 hit 10 strikeouts. Also he had 2 RBI. Era dropped to 0.56

Secondbest 06-11-2021 09:48 PM

They’re saying he may have an Elbow injury.

pandy 06-11-2021 10:45 PM

Degrom has allowed 11 earned runs this season and he has 11 RBI's. Amazing.

Johnny V 06-12-2021 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Secondbest (Post 2730623)
They’re saying he may have an Elbow injury.

It supposedly is tendonitis of the right forearm. deGrom and management both stated they expect him to make his next start against the CHC on Wednesday. We shall see. That 0.56 ERA is crazy unbelievable.
Hey how about those Giants? DeScalfani pitched a 1-0 complete game shutout giving up only 2 hits and 1 walk against WAS last night.

pandy 06-12-2021 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pandy (Post 2730631)
Degrom has allowed 11 earned runs this season and he has 11 RBI's. Amazing.

I just found out that these numbers are wrong. My son just told me that Degrom has allowed 4 earned runs and has 5 RBI's.

Johnny V 06-12-2021 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pandy (Post 2730668)
I just found out that these numbers are wrong. My son just told me that Degrom has allowed 4 earned runs and has 5 RBI's.

Pandy, along with those 5 RBI's the guy is hitting .400. Of course deGrom has only 25 AB's, but what the heck, the guy is a pitcher, so that is pretty damn good.

Robert Fischer 06-12-2021 11:27 AM

95mph used to be 'heat'

substances on the fingers and ball used to reserved to the rosin-bag, and for guys with arm injuries or greg maddux-level fastballs

JustRalph 06-12-2021 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pandy (Post 2730631)
Degrom has allowed 11 earned runs this season and he has 11 RBI's. Amazing.

Old school. When pitchers tried to hit

JustRalph 06-12-2021 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer (Post 2730691)
95mph used to be 'heat'

substances on the fingers and ball used to reserved to the rosin-bag, and for guys with arm injuries or greg maddux-level fastballs

I think Maddox had about 8 pitches and 3 were fastballs of varying speeds. He was awesome

Marshall Bennett 06-12-2021 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustRalph (Post 2730795)
I think Maddox had about 8 pitches and 3 were fastballs of varying speeds. He was awesome

Nothing ever rattled him either. A stone cold figure on the mound. I always felt when compared to the game's pitching greats he's somewhat underrated.

Robert Fischer 06-12-2021 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustRalph (Post 2730795)
I think Maddox had about 8 pitches and 3 were fastballs of varying speeds. He was awesome

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marshall Bennett (Post 2730806)
Nothing ever rattled him either. A stone cold figure on the mound. I always felt when compared to the game's pitching greats he's somewhat underrated.

made it look easy

Maddox was my favorite pitcher.

He had a cutting fastball that almost moved like the slider version of a screwball.

Befuddle hitters.

He'd have a hard time making the pros today, where they'd be looking for MPH and 'Spin Rate', but he could dominate today.

jay68802 06-12-2021 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer (Post 2730809)
made it look easy

Maddox was my favorite pitcher.

He had a cutting fastball that almost moved like the slider version of a screwball.

Befuddle hitters.

He'd have a hard time making the pros today, where they'd be looking for MPH and 'Spin Rate', but he could dominate today.

Greg Maddox was warming up before a game. As usual, a group of fans was watching. One of them, about 14, watched, and when he was finished, stated "I can throw that hard." Maddox said he was a little embarrassed by that comment.

thaskalos 06-12-2021 06:39 PM

When Maddux was at his best as a pitcher...he appeared on the then popular sports show "Up Close", with Roy Firestone. Here is how the interview went, at one point:

Firestone: "If you had to pay to watch one pitcher today other than yourself...who would that pitcher be?"

Maddux: "Randy Johnson."

Firestone: "Why Randy Johnson?"

Maddux: "Because I think he is the most dominating pitcher in the game today. People think that Johnson is just a 'thrower', but take it from me...he is an awesome pitcher, period!"

Firestone: "Is he a better pitcher than you?"

Maddux: "Well..."

Firestone: "Randy Johnson is a better pitcher than YOU?"

Maddux: "Well...let me put it this way. If you asked the 10 best hitters in baseball whom they'd rather face, me or Randy Johnson...I bet that I'd get all 10 votes".

When Greatness and Humility meet in the same person...it's a sight to behold. :ThmbUp:


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