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-   -   Trump signs tariffs (http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=143679)

Clocker 03-08-2018 08:02 PM

Trump signs tariffs
 
Canada and Mexico are exempt, any other nation can apply for exemption.

White House officials say the tariffs are an essential matter of domestic and economic security. :rolleyes:

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/08/trum...to-others.html

woodtoo 03-08-2018 08:08 PM

Tariffs work as NK agrees to denuclearize.

Tom 03-08-2018 08:23 PM

Winning!

Clocker 03-08-2018 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woodtoo (Post 2287714)
Tariffs work as NK agrees to denuclearize.

Right. They would have been in deep trouble with those tariffs on all that NK steel we import. :pound:

elysiantraveller 03-08-2018 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clocker (Post 2287713)
Canada and Mexico are exempt, any other nation can apply for exemption.

White House officials say the tariffs are an essential matter of domestic and economic security. :rolleyes:

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/08/trum...to-others.html

What's going to be funny is when the EU gets it's exemption...

This will be a big nothing-burger in terms of policy at that point.

fast4522 03-08-2018 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller (Post 2287733)
What's going to be funny is when the EU gets it's exemption...

This will be a big nothing-burger in terms of policy at that point.

Your clueless, what our North & South bordered countries are exempt from is to be announced per NAFTA redone or they get the same knee pads as everyone else. China dumping with the help of anyone else is over. Exactly what you did not want is going be, any country who puts a 30% duty on our cars to enter their EU country will face the same 30% here. Plenty of material for you to post for over the next few years.

woodtoo 03-08-2018 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clocker (Post 2287730)
Right. They would have been in deep trouble with those tariffs on all that NK steel we import. :pound:

The tariffs are mainly aimed at China and they put pressure on NK

elysiantraveller 03-08-2018 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woodtoo (Post 2287738)
The tariffs are mainly aimed at China and they put pressure on NK

I thought they were to bring back jobs and #MAGA?

elysiantraveller 03-08-2018 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fast4522 (Post 2287737)
Your clueless, what our North & South bordered countries are exempt from is to be announced per NAFTA redone or they get the same knee pads as everyone else. China dumping with the help of anyone else is over. Exactly what you did not want is going be, any country who puts a 30% duty on our cars to enter their EU country will face the same 30% here. Plenty of material for you to post for over the next few years.

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

So we place tariffs on steel imports but then offer exemptions to our leading importers...

No, my friend, this is an optics victory for the #Maga crowd that likely does nothing.

fast4522 03-08-2018 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller (Post 2287742)
:lol::lol::lol::lol:

So we place tariffs on steel imports but then offer exemptions to our leading importers...

No, my friend this is an optics victory for the #Maga crowd that likely does nothing.

Why don't you hold off with that until President Donald J. Trump really pisses on you real soon. Your patting yourself on the back too early for tomorrow and too late for today. I never believed your conservative bull, but I did think that you thought that you were smoother than baby shit and smarter than the rest of us. Not.

elysiantraveller 03-08-2018 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fast4522 (Post 2287744)
Why don't you hold off with that until President Donald J. Trump really pisses on you real soon. Your patting yourself on the back too early for tomorrow and too late for today. I never believed your conservative bull, but I did think that you thought that you were smoother than baby shit and smarter than the rest of us. Not.

If you put a tax on an import but then give tax exemptions to the people it most applies to is it really a tax? Yes or no?

JustRalph 03-08-2018 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller (Post 2287742)
:lol::lol::lol::lol:

So we place tariffs on steel imports but then offer exemptions to our leading importers...

No, my friend, this is an optics victory for the #Maga crowd that likely does nothing.

Unless you’re one of the 500 workers being called back by U.S. Steel........

reckless 03-08-2018 11:46 PM

Quote:

The vast majority of Americans support President Trump’s economic nationalist agenda on foreign trade, wherein the populist president is in the process of renegotiating multinational trade deals like the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA).

As Trump signed into law his 25 percent tariff on imported steel and 10 percent tariff on imported aluminum to protect American workers and U.S. industries, more than 80 percent of Americans say they support the president’s trade economic nationalism.

In a Harvard-Harris poll, about 83 percent of Americans said they supported Trump’s effort to level the playing field on foreign trade to reverse the decades-long pattern of multinational free trade agreements which have wiped out broad portions of the Rust Belt and middle America.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-governm...c-nationalism/


This country has been in an economic down spiral for decades, accelerating with true 'free' trade Republican, G.H.W. Bush right on through the America hating Barack Obama, inclusive, thanks to the lie and hoax of unfettered 'free' trade, which has proven not to be free by any means or metrics.

fast4522 03-09-2018 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller (Post 2287746)
If you put a tax on an import but then give tax exemptions to the people it most applies to is it really a tax? Yes or no?


Your real good with the play by play Trump hate, you will have plenty of material over the next few years. But the reality will be the shit on your face with everything you complain about, I can't imagine anything that comes to pass that your going to like.

elysiantraveller 03-09-2018 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fast4522 (Post 2287799)
Your real good with the play by play Trump hate, you will have plenty of material over the next few years. But the reality will be the shit on your face with everything you complain about, I can't imagine anything that comes to pass that your going to like.

You're real good at being unable to answer yes/no questions.

Inner Dirt 03-09-2018 06:48 AM

The anti tariff people act like foreign countries don't put tariffs on USA goods and let American made items flow into their country with ease.

elysiantraveller 03-09-2018 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inner Dirt (Post 2287815)
The anti tariff people act like foreign countries don't put tariffs on USA goods and let American made items flow into their country with ease.

Because for the most part they do. We keep talking about automobile tariffs ignoring the fact American companies produce their cars for the European market in Europe. Meanwhile European automakers make their cars for the US market in... you guessed it... America.

Shortening the time from completed product to market is another one of those rules of economics. Made possible by a global economy.

LemonSoupKid 03-09-2018 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inner Dirt (Post 2287815)
The anti tariff people act like foreign countries don't put tariffs on USA goods and let American made items flow into their country with ease.

This

They always leave so many obvious things out of the argument. Because things have been done for so long (idiotically), that should be our default presumption of what's right or what to do? Silliness. As if Trump hasn't proven this all wrong and his supporters right, with win after win after win.

elysiantraveller 03-09-2018 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LemonSoupKid (Post 2287909)
This

They always leave so many obvious things out of the argument. Because things have been done for so long (idiotically), that should be our default presumption of what's right or what to do? Silliness. As if Trump hasn't proven this all wrong and his supporters right, with win after win after win.

I answered that relatively easily...

Look at how many countries place duties on our agricultural exports. Almost none. We do food real cheap.

As an aside NAFTA devastated both Canadian and Mexican agri-industry.

Tom 03-09-2018 03:23 PM

Quote:

Look at how many countries place duties on our agricultural exports. Almost none. We do food real cheap.
They are all free to grow their own.
If we are selling cheap, we need to raise prices.

If they don't like it, let them eat cake! :pound:

elysiantraveller 03-09-2018 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom (Post 2288002)
They are all free to grow their own.
If we are selling cheap, we need to raise prices.

If they don't like it, let them eat cake! :pound:

Nobody competes with America when it comes to agri-business.... nobody...

Tom 03-09-2018 03:28 PM

Then stop worrying and eat your broccoli.

fast4522 03-09-2018 06:24 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Your in no position to demand a yes/no on anything. I see this issue a NAFTA that is in flux with our President who I support 110%. I give our President a wide latitude in dealing with trade and people who call themselves democrats.

JustRalph 03-09-2018 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom (Post 2288008)
Then stop worrying and eat your broccoli.

:lol::pound:

elysiantraveller 03-09-2018 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fast4522 (Post 2288104)
Your in no position to demand a yes/no on anything. I see this issue a NAFTA that is in flux with our President who I support 110%. I give our President a wide latitude in dealing with trade and people who call themselves democrats.

Uh huh...

U.S. eases way to more tariff exemptions under pressure from allies

Quote:

“The president can do exemptions and my expectation is there may be some other countries that he considers in the next two weeks,” Mnuchin said in an interview with broadcaster CNBC on Friday.
So I'll ask again... is it really a tariff on imports if all the major importers are exempt?

Feel free to keep dodging.

fast4522 03-09-2018 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller (Post 2288129)
Uh huh...

U.S. eases way to more tariff exemptions under pressure from allies



So I'll ask again... is it really a tariff on imports if all the major importers are exempt?

Feel free to keep dodging.

I am not, policy is in flux, this is how this President operates. I have no idea what the final result will be so I will afford myself as much time to chew over policy that is not complete until such time that it is. Your need to be part of the resistance is duly noted.

Clocker 03-10-2018 08:42 PM

Who always gets it in the end?

https://www.zerohedge.com/sites/defa...0_10-08-58.png

Tom 03-11-2018 10:22 AM

Unless there isn't one.
I'm not sure this reaction wasn't planned.
He might have drawn to an inside straight and got it.

We shall see.
Results matters, process doesn't.

classhandicapper 03-11-2018 11:00 AM

The free trade advocates remind me of that scene from Animal House.


After decades of getting our clock cleaned, rather than observing and admitting to reality they stick to fully discredited theory. It has to be the greatest case of cognitive bias in all human history. To be clear, I was guilty of it for about 20+ years also even as the evidence I was wrong first started trickling in. But it's obvious now.

Apparently years ago, the smartest and most honest guy in the room was Ross Perot.

elysiantraveller 03-11-2018 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom (Post 2288807)
Unless there isn't one.
I'm not sure this reaction wasn't planned.
He might have drawn to an inside straight and got it.

We shall see.
Results matters, process doesn't.

Well the moving target on the policy makes the reaction understandably confused. The EU, South Korea and Japan will;

1) Seek exemption citing similar national security concerns.

2) If not granted will retaliate.

elysiantraveller 03-11-2018 11:05 AM

.
Quote:

Originally Posted by classhandicapper (Post 2288815)
The free trade advocates remind me of that scene from Animal House.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdFLPn30dvQ

After decades of getting our clock cleaned, rather than observing and admitting to reality they stick to fully discredited theory. It has to be the greatest case of cognitive bias in all human history. To be clear, I was guilty of it for about 20+ years also even as the evidence I was wrong first started trickling in. But it's obvious now.

Apparently years ago, the smartest and most honest guy in the room was Ross Perot.

What evidence of "getting our clock cleaned"?

Massive levels of consumption? High standards of living? Highest manufacturing output in history? Cheap goods? $18 Trillion GDP? Full employment?

You keep saying this and others but I've seen no evidence of the global trade economy kicking our ass...

fast4522 03-11-2018 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inner Dirt (Post 2287815)
The anti tariff people act like foreign countries don't put tariffs on USA goods and let American made items flow into their country with ease.

If a country puts a 30% duty on our cars entering their country it is just fair we put 30% on them, the cost of access to our economy.

Clocker 03-11-2018 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fast4522 (Post 2288839)
If a country puts a 30% duty on our cars entering their country it is just fair we put 30% on them, the cost of access to our economy.

You aren't putting the cost "on them", you are putting it on the consumers in this country.

fast4522 03-11-2018 12:40 PM

Who are you trying to shit, cars alone will bring Germany to its knees, I could care less that you have to pay 30% more for your BMW. Everyone living paycheck to paycheck will laugh at you.

fast4522 03-11-2018 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller (Post 2288818)
.

What evidence of "getting our clock cleaned"?

Massive levels of consumption? High standards of living? Highest manufacturing output in history? Cheap goods? $18 Trillion GDP? Full employment?

You keep saying this and others but I've seen no evidence of the global trade economy kicking our ass...

This is going to disrupt Europe big time, forget your numbers because when we reach Y2K numbers and far exceed that period of time it will be at the expense of everyone else. Just as the last 30 years has been at our expense. This is just the very begining and you full well know it.

Clocker 03-11-2018 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fast4522 (Post 2288843)
Who are you trying to shit, cars alone will bring Germany to its knees, I could less that you have to pay 30% more for your BMW. Everyone living paycheck to paycheck will laugh at you.

If the prices on imported cars are increased by tariffs, do you really believe that American car companies would not raise their prices?

fast4522 03-11-2018 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clocker (Post 2288849)
If the prices on imported cars are increased by tariffs, do you really believe that American car companies would not raise their prices?

I think American car manufacturers would have the best years ever recorded. Our economy will explode with jobs, Trump will become unbeatable. Every positive record will be shattered, socialism abroad will go into a tailspin that it can never recover from.

Clocker 03-11-2018 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fast4522 (Post 2288854)
I think American car manufacturers would have the best years ever recorded. Our economy will explode with jobs, Trump will become unbeatable. Every positive record will be shattered, socialism abroad will go into a tailspin that it can never recover from.

You completely avoided the question, so let me repeat it.

If the prices on imported cars are increased by tariffs, do you really believe that American car companies would not raise their prices?

classhandicapper 03-11-2018 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller (Post 2288818)
.

What evidence of "getting our clock cleaned"?

Massive levels of consumption? High standards of living? Highest manufacturing output in history? Cheap goods? $18 Trillion GDP? Full employment?

You keep saying this and others but I've seen no evidence of the global trade economy kicking our ass...

When you are running consistent huge trade deficits you are losing.

You are getting depreciating goods. They are getting dollars which they use to buy US stocks, bonds, and real estate. The income from the government bonds comes out of our tax dollars and since they control the sale and purchase of trillions dollars of US bonds, they have influence over our interest rates and thus have political clout in the US also.

When you USED to have a vibrant middle class and it is evaporating because the jobs to produce goods have moved overseas, your are losing.

But hey, some of us bought blue chips stocks in the 80s and get cheaper goods at Walmarts so everything must be great.

fast4522 03-11-2018 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clocker (Post 2288858)
You completely avoided the question, so let me repeat it.

If the prices on imported cars are increased by tariffs, do you really believe that American car companies would not raise their prices?

I think we would enter uncharted territory, our country would see the expansion of these United States uncomfortable to some but higher wages and prices. Ross Perot might then talk of the sucking sound heard in Europe being deafening.


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