If you mean me, I was in cycling from 1988 until 2003. I could teach doctors about blood doping. It was my sport that taught everyone the lesson that you can't go above 50% with EPO or you will die. We learned that when 18 18-21 year old Belgians on the top team in the world at the time all dropped dead of heart attacks. Their autopsies showed they had sludge for blood. EPO increaes red blood cell, you only have so much room in your arteries.

I'll compare LeMond to Secretariat. LeMond may very well have been on steroids, but his natural V02 Max was 80%. Lance Armstrong's was under 40%. Armstrong couldn't even get a 4 minute mile when he was a triathelete punk in highschool or hold our wheels in the MS150 from Houston to Austin.

Keep posting. We're all getting closer to the truth.

Masochistic.

Yes, the steroid thing is one way but it was legal when he did it. It just didn't metabolize in time. Pretty sure the other guys are using substances far more advanced than the typical steroid treatment. Can't wait to hear more.

Why would horsemen not want this? I mean, if you are cheating you obviously don't, but otherwise why not?

A lot of high profile TOC board members would be outed including B.B. IMO.

Horse racing must also deal with performance-hindering drugs that could be used to stop a horse from its best performance, which is not generally considered a problem in human sport.

Arthur continued to point out the need for out-of-competition testing because "races are won in training," where he said doping is most effective.

"Everyone also knows when we are going to test the horses—right after the race," he said. "That is pretty easy to plan around if you are bent on cheating. ... Here is the question for this board and the leaders in this sport—do you want a real anti-doping program or not? Bluntly, without an (out-of-competition) program with teeth, you won't have one."

Arthur questioned why the TOC and CTT would object to the out-of-competition testing, and multiple heated, sometimes personal, exchanges between him, Avioli, and Balch followed.


https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-rac...sting-proposal

:popcorn:

Out the cheats.

Why? Don't a few of you in this thread already know who they all are? Don't tell me you're guessing...

Yes we do.
But, shouldn't everyone know?

Or are they too big to fail?
Crooked game will try to stop it from coming out?

No...you actually don't.

There are a LOT more trainers out there cheating then you could possibly imagine. From buzzers to you name it...it's happening.

But you know what? It's been happening FOREVER.

And the game goes on.

Adapt or die.

Limit stalls to a set number to increase the number of trainers at a meet. This will increase field size.

Otherwise.............. Saturday's 4th at BEL is presented for your viewing/wagering pleasure.

Anyone know how many stalls Chad Brown and Todd Pletcher have at SAR for the upcoming meet?

email blast this morning.

I think he (Rick Arthur) has a responsibility to go into more detail after his explosive allegations.

Everyone is thinking it but not directly saying it so I will. Does Rick Arthur believe Bob Baffert is doping in training?

I don’t understand your post. Are you defending the cheating?

The true PA comes out FF in his previous response.

He knows the game smells from corruption, yet he's usually on his soapbox defending it.

:rolleyes:

He isn't defending anything, just making a statement about the realities in racing.

Can a racing outfit use steroids and other growth and performance drugs, etc, while the horse is being raised and all through the 2 yr season without making a racecard start...then quit right before joining onto the racing season as a 3 yr old...I'm thinking maybe Superdoped horses are being raised up from the get go to give them a head start physically...?

That's what I've been saying in several posts - on this thread or others I've made on the TC with Justify, Arrogate, and the supertrainers and owners.

I wonder if, maybe if used, steroids made his heart oversized....sounds more plausible than the gene theory..http://www.sport-horse-breeder.com/large-heart.html

How about you just go **** yourself? How about that, asshole.

You don't know shit from shinola. It shows in almost everything you post.

That's why you can't bet t-breds anymore and now resort to playing harness.

Yet you post like you're the Stephen Hawking of racing.

I don't defend shit. I just point out idiots. That's my main game around here.

No, an enlarged heart is NOT a usual side effect from steroid use. I've researched this myself.

However, being a fine-tuned athlete will lead to a larger heart, but it's the "good kind" of enlargement...as any muscle will get larger when exercised constantly, and your heart is indeed a muscle...

Too harsh? :pound:

How could you POSSIBLY get from my post that I am DEFENDING cheating. Holy moly....what is wrong with some of you?

"We have to try to help these guys" - Tim Ritvo



Once again, most of you and the rest of the entire industry are missing the crucial concern here.


"Trainers" are not, and will never be chief among the concerns of horse racing or its well being. Everyone knows that ping-pong balls do not need trainers. The speculative game of race horse ownership is a separate entity from the core concerns relating to the future of horse racing. Race horses might as well be bitcoins where it concerns any connection between their worth and the wagering dollar.

The bottom line is that nearly every other form of gambling/gaming features significant parity among the gambling/gaming crowd, and horse racing does not. The guys Tim Ritvo needs to help are not the unrelated speculators on the backstretch, they are the people who have been right in front of his eyes for decades, toward whom Tim Ritvo has perhaps only lifted a single finger during his entire career.


Horse racing should be focused on "artificially equalizing" its own gambling crowd, so as to put itself on equal footing with all of the competition (for the gambling dollar) which has assembled nearby and since the 1970's.


It's as simple as now doing (at least) SOMEthing for your customers, for what would be the collective first times in the entire careers of many race track operators.

Stop giving customers Tim Ritvo's finger.

Because you said cheating’s always happened, and “adapt.”

What’s adapt supposed to me except to accept it and adapt accordingly.

You have another meaning for saying to adapt?

Too Funny
 

So I see this ad at Paulick for a substance called Race Recovery, being hawked by Baffert and Justify, the poster boy of miraculous recovery.

It's Gatorade for Horses basically, an electolyte supplement. It's got what horses crave!


You don't need steriods for race recovery! You just need Horse Gatorade! The inside joke element to this...well played Bob, well played.

How can you do anything other than accept and adapt? There are many ways to cheat outside of using PEDs. Accepting and adapting doesn't mean you are against efforts to minimize cheating.

Do you accept and adapt that there are still people who drive their cars over the speed limit even though the highway patrol spends countless hours trying to stop drivers from doing so?

All elite atheletes have large hearts. Your heart grows with use like any muscle. Once you stop being an elite athelete your heart starts returning to normal. Like the rest of you.

I've always thought the large heart bs was just a red herring. He had one, ergo, it must be why he had such an incredible 5 weeks in the Spring of 73. A better example of circular logic you'll never find.

There are 3 bio-mechanical factors in speed--propulsive force, cadence, and oxygen in-take.

The article below is pretty cool, it examines Secretariat, Black Caviar, Frankel, and American Pharoah. Secretariat's stride was shorter than all of them. Two lengths shorter than Black Caviar and Frankel and one foot shorter than AP. His speed came from his cadence (what the author calls his turn over).

https://www.performancegenetics.com/...to-Secretariat

Think of Winx, she has incredibly fast cadence, as do Quarter Horses. They are faster because they are actually moving faster, literally, their legs are moving faster. It sounds dumb, but that's all there is to it.

Amphetamines might increase cadence. If Secretariat's speed wasn't natural, perhaps they had him hopped up on speed, but he ran 10f in 1:59 twice in his TC, and was on pace to do so in the Preakness and amphetamines wreck havoc with consistency, so...maybe he really was just a very fast horse.

Anywho, I recommend the article. It also discusses strike-force.

Back when Lance turned from "couldn't get through the first week Lance," to super-Lance, there was a lot made of the fact that he had increased his cadence and improved his form, which he did do, and those were certainly necessary to maximize his other "adjustments."

I don't know very much about gene-doping, so I'm putting a caveat at the outset.

With traditional doping there are problems that arise with use overtime.

With testosterone and EPO, the longer you use, the less your own body makes, so that you become wholly dependant on supplimental sources over time. If a horse is raised on supplements, you'd risk having an animal that would cease to do much of anything if it were prevented from receiving continued supplements even for a short time. You'd go from having an athelete to a couch potato overnight.

I would think that the benefit of an unraced 2 yo starting from nowhere as a 3yo, would be that they would be less likely to come up for OOC testing for awhile, and then the testing will be pretty predictable, almost always right after the race.You have to be a moron to get caught if you know when the test is coming.

This would give somewhat of an edge because the early races will take less out of the horse, because the horses is hopped all the way up, whereas his crop mates have been running with less of a buffer, for longer, taking more of a toll.

FWIW the timing from the KY Derby to the Belmont is perfect for a classic EPO/testosterone regime to avoid testing, because you know exactly when you'll be tested and it almost splits perfectly into three very tidy 3 week regiments if your last race before the Derby was 3 weeks earlier: Supplement the day after your last prep test, by the KY Derby you'll pass the tests, but still have the benefit. Then re-up the day after the KY Derby post race test, and hold your breath that the Preakness is still the joke-test race, then top off again the day after the Preakness test for the Belmont. With the Preakness, you'd prob want to do a smaller amount, just to be safe.

Bad analogy.

You work to stop the cheating. Period. It’s inane to say it can’t be done, it just takes the will to do it. This ain’t rocket science, nor do the cheaters know anything their non-cheating counterparts don’t.

PA,

I don't need the abuse from you.

**** off.

Buh-bye.

You and I have ABSOLUTELY NO POWER to enforce the laws of racing.

NONE.

So what the **** do you want ME to do about it, except learn some way to deal with it, until things change for the better(or)?

ADAPT or die. It's pretty ****ing simple.

And it certainly DOESN'T MEAN I DEFEND CHEATERS.

Should you and I go to the barns and run inspections ourselves? Perform some out of competition testing? What the hell do you want to do?

Complain on a message board? Lot of good that does.

So, yeah, ADAPT or quit. Lots of people seem to be quitting...that's fine. I choose not to.

And I don't need you posting lies about me, so don't look for me to apologize. I couldn't care less whether you stay or go.