pace numbers
 

just wondering if anyone knows who puts out a good set of pace numbers. early middle and late. how accurate are they? also how much do they charge?

The guy from www.pacefigures.com is supposed to be the best. :ThmbUp:

Carey Fotias at www.equiform.com. Handcrafted for each race. Or, CJ at www.pacefigures.com.

speedfigures.com for Californina

ITS Post time (Pizzola) as an option in thier PPs.

If you make your own, as I do, using track to track comparisons with a pars book or program, incorporate a track variant, (and you decide how to aply it), distance adjustments, and make other adjustments you find important, you'll be ahead of the game, because you'll know HOW they were made, and how best to USE them.

You'll get a feel for the way you're playing a particular race.

And you'll have something your competition at the track doesn't have.

The best retired. John Del Riccio, formerly of Woodside Associates.

I would ask why he sells his numbers and doesn't just bet them. Wouldn't his customers kill the prices on anything profitable the way the DRF destroyed Beyer's?

The $64,000 question. Folks do swear by CJ's figs, but his site said he isn't taking anymore customers...or at least it did when I last visited. I am sure his figs do well or folks wouldn't continue to buy from him. By the way, Happy Birthday CJ.

First hand knowledge, he DOES bet his numbers.

#1- He does bet his numbers

#2- As with Byers and any figures, they are open to interpretation.

CJ has something shy of 200 customers the last I heard. I believe that is a somewhat smaller distribution than that of the Daily Racing Form.

it doesn't seem too long ago that lamboguy was raving about the cj numbers and premier turf. and now, out of the blue, we get a thread like this??:eek:

not for long if they keep raising the price!!:)

Beyer complained in 1982 that his first books were killing his prices, and he wasn't even supplying his figures to anyone. His disciples had to make their own figures, which is even less standardized a scenario than this What happens is anyone who wins keeps accumulating money until the pools are
literally overrun.

Bernie Madoff used to brag about his returns, and say he wouldn't take new customers, knowing people couldn't resist begging him to make a "special exception." He'd put up some mock resistance to the idea at first, then say "well, I like you, so okay."

It seems on every internet forum there is that "lone exception" to the skepticism that normally comes when someone claims ultimate success, with no profit motive, and that he's spending all this time because he likes helping total strangers.

This game is one of extremes. If someone wins, they keep winning, and if they lose, they go broke. Those who keep winning would just max out the pools and it takes only one or two to accomplish that. I don't see Ernie Dahlman selling his stuff or trying to prove anything to anyone.

Its difficult to address someone who sets the tone of his post calling others, disciples. There's a good amount of malcontent written, particularly in light of the fact that you're comparing Cj and Carey Foitias, (and other figure makers) to the biggest lying, thieving piece of trash to ever walk the streets. You don't find this a bit of a stretch?

Do you work each day, simply, for your health? Or, do you expect Andrew Beyer to create figures, which literally changed the face of this game, to spend months and years writing books for his? The same going for other figure makers today.

What would cause you to believe these men don't bet? Particularly, when they've found value?

Maybe you've posted here before--under another name.:faint: