Here she is.....in living color......No.28

Wow...she never looked like a winner at any point of the race except for the final 50 yards. :eek:

Eventually, even by accident or poor racing luck, you don't get there. 28 straight wins is impressive for any horse at any level.

Vote : Enable

I was working as a carpenter building one of the parking garages at the Empire State Plaza in Albany. We had a slightly different version of where that hair resided.

If only....
 

This thread is so redundant, I couldn't vote.

You race these mares against each other in either Europe, or Australia,
the deck is so stacked for the home team, it makes it close to pointless.

That being said, I would give Enable a better chance to win down under
than I ever would Winx racing on any course in Europe against her.

What a potential race the 2018 BC Turf could have been at Churchill.
Neutral setting - may the best horse win.

No guarantee either would win, though.

That's horse racing.....:cool:

I watched both Winx win the Cox Plate for the fourth time at the gym at 1:30 am (15 hour difference from Michigan to Australia) and I just watched Enable beat a very game filly named Magical in the Breeders' Cup Turf along with a host of males that were 10 lengths to the back of the filly. I am undecided on who I thought would win. I love Enable and I love Winx. Bring both of them to America in a 2200 meter event with a full field and see what happens.

Enable just won the Arc and the BC Turf, much more difficult races in terms of competition. Winx streak is amazing, Enable is a better horse, of course we will never know because the one horse never left Australia.

What are the chances?
 

It's a long shot at best, but both of these mares might race again in 2019.

How cool would it be if connections would agree to face each other?

You can always dream.......:headbanger:

This is sounding like Paquiau/Mayweather:cool:

Oh, much better than that ;)

Balboa / Drago?

Creed/Drago?

Stauffer/Asaro

Enable has beaten the better competition on a consistent basis, but I think it's a lot closer than critics of Winx think. Winx has an incredible turn of foot, wins with a ton in reserve, and she's not facing chopped liver in Australia. If you put a gun to my head, I'd take Enable, but I'd definitely get my affairs in order before the race with a gun pointed at my head. ;)

I would also gladly pay $1000 to see it happen.

At this point I doubt it will ever happen unless Khalid Bin Abdullah is willing to ship Enable down to Australia to race against Winx in 2019. This of course would be contingent on whether Winx will even be back to race another season. But it would not only be Winx Vs Enable it would be Hugh Bowman Vs Frankie Detorri.

Winx keeps winning but she is definitely not as good now as she was two years ago. She is a 7yo now of course. How she was in the spring of 2016 (Aus seasons) and the autumn of 2017 was her top, and it’s that winx that would be amazing to see against enable. I don’t think enable could have gotten near her the way she won the 2016 Cox Plate, that was her career high.

Now, winx is, as I said, no longer as good as that, but she’s still good enough to beat everyone she comes up against. I don’t think she will have any more than three or four more runs in the autumn of 2019 though before retiring. We won’t see her in another Cox Plate spring 2019.

What kind of ratings are you using?

Who's Enable, never heard of her!

My brother even asked me how I picked her to win the Arc (again, THIS YEAR!).

If the Melbourne Cup results are any measure of the standard of racing in Europe vs Australia, particularly with stayers (and this has been the trend for a while), you have to give the edge to Enable.

Enable travels and wins world-class races. Winx doesn't travel and wins good races.

Take nothing away from Winx, Chris Waller has done a phenomenal job training and placing the mare, but for me, it's Enable.

Perhaps Khalid Bin Abdullah and John Gosden will be willing to travel to the land down under where women glow and men plunder.

Well, Abdullah did send Finche down for the Melbourne Cup, so he doesn't seem adverse to traveling to Oz.

Actually, the lyric is "Where women glow and men thunder. Can your hear, can you hear, can you hear the thunder?" Sorry if you changed the line intentionally as a gag. Witty post in any case". :D

This is one race which I'd have to pass and just would love to enjoy as a fan.
Of course, if you put a gun to my head I'd go with Enable.... I think. :confused:

Hey bob. The lyrics have always been "where women glow and men plunder". A quick google search will confirm this. Thank you for the compliment however. :D

I stand corrected. The men do plunder. I was fooled since the next line is "can you hear them thunder".
That song really takes me back. I remember at the time in addition to the Men at Work there was a Canadian group called Men without Hats (Safety Dance was my favorite). One DJ said that with the current economy then they should get together and call themselves Men without Work.

I compile my own on all Australian racing, using their times and sectionals, as well as incorporating race class, and of course adjusting for weights.

The melb cup is completely different to the cox plate. The former is a 3200m handicap, the latter 2040m WFA. We just haven’t been breeding 3200m horses here in recent years so our stayers are garbage. The European stayers are distinctly superior to ours.

However we do still breed good horses up to about 2000m. Our sprinters have been our best horses for the last few decades (though our current crop are sub par) however we’ve always produced good 1600m and 2000m horses too. Completely different type of horse and type of race over 1600 to 2000 (winx pet range) than it is over 3200. And a completely different type of horse required to win at each.

Therefore saying “if the Melbourne cup is anything to go by then...” is an argument flawed at its inception.

Kind of like me saying “if the NFL is anything to go by then all American sport is shit.”

My initial post was a general comparison concerning grass horses from Europe vs Australia. I agree with everything that you wrote in your first two paragraphs.

You obviously live in Australia. What is your local racecourse? I lived in WA for almost a year back in the 90's and have been back for racing holidays six times and have visited 70 racecourses there. So FWIW, I'm pretty well aquainted with your racing and breeding industry. If I can recall, the only success Australian bred horses had overseas (Europe/Dubai, because they rarely, if ever, travel to the US) is with their sprinters, which amplifies their worldwide inferiority at middle and staying distances.

Keeping in mind that this is a Winx v Enable thread; in Winx's latest prep, she could have very well been pointed to the US Breeders Cup. Her connections could have easily skipped the Cox Plate and sent her to the US. Her optimal/softer race would have been the Filly and Mare Turf (2100). Though to prove her superiority over Enable she would have had to go against her in the Turf (2400).

The argument over who's best is difficult as Winx's best is 2000 and Enable's is 2400. If you split the difference and have them run at 2200, I believe that Enable would still win.

Enable travels to France and wins the Arc, then travels to the US and wins the Turf. Winx stays at home and continues to beat up on the local talent.

Also, Enable is a proven winner on more varied racecourses, Chester/Churchill Downs (sharp and tight), as well as, Longchamp, Chantilly, York, Ascot (large, galloping-type). Most of Winx's win have come on large, galloping-type (400+ meter stretches); less Moonee Valley which shows a stretch of of 173 meters, but that is a bit mis-leading as prior to the small bend leading into the stretch, there is a 400+ meter stretch leading into it.

Unfortuately, I don't think that they will ever meet, so the debate goes on. But for me, it will always be Enable.

Cheers. Local track is Geelong, but it’s a tip, the turf is always rail biased the last few years. I live about 20 minutes away from there near the coast.

Our sprinters have been our best horses the last 20 years but it wasn’t always that way. We used to send horses for the 2000m Japan cup and won it as well as running very well in it many times. It’s just lately that sprinters have been our go and that because too many breeders want the quick success from 2yo and 3yo races.

As I said though Winx’s best is behind her now. She is a 7yo. Her best days were the spring of 2016 and autumn of 2017 (aus seasons). Now I think enable would probably beat her but I don’t think anything around at the moment would’ve beaten her in the cox plate of 2016. One of the great all time Australian performances that day.

But using the Melbourne cup to line up winx is flawed. And you don’t need to anyway - Benbatl ran 2nd to her this year and you can get a line on his timeform figures and line that up against enable. In fact I might just do that and get back to you!

Made it to Geelong the day after the new years meeting at Hanging Rock in 2014. It was kind of anti-climatic, as racing at the "Rock" was quite an experience.

Had an excellent day out at Geelong. Very quiet mid-week meeting. The staff were wonderful in providing me with an owner's badge for the day allowing me to mix it up with the owner's and trainer's. Even had a nice win punting.

This past March, I went racing at Colac (a very under utilized country racecourse). I'm sure you would have been there. Once again, the hospitality was fantastic. Had the chance to walk the course the following day. Quite a stiff run up the back straight that led to a quick downhill run to the home turn.

You are fortunate to have such an enjoyable array of racing venues in Victoria. I always look forward to returning. I still have all of the Melbourne city tracks to visit. Hopefully, they'll leave Sandown alone until I get there.

You’re right about Hanging Rock. It’s an amazing place to go. I went to a couple of the New Year’s Day meets there, when you could still bring your esky in full of beer lol. Amazing to think that the Kelly gang used to ride down that big hill to come to those same races.

I haven’t actually been to Colac! You’re right I should - close to home. You’re right though they don’t race there enough. I will make a point of going next year.

You must go to Flemington, of course, but I also urge you to go to MV before they change the layout. I don’t like betting there but it’s a magnificent atmosphere during a race. A real amphitheatre. It would have been amazing being there for this years cox plate.

Enable to race in 2019
 

https://www.sportinglife.com/racing/...raining/155084

Well of course, my racing mate from the UK told me this at the Breeders cup.


They want that 3rd arc.


Allan

Fair Assessment
 

Both trainers being very candid. :ThmbUp:

Two excellent race mares with different strengths.

I thought that was the perfect answer.

Most of these discussions don't bother recognizing that even among great horses there are distance, surface, and pace preferences. So depending on how the track is playing and what the pace setup is that will have an impact on the result fairly often when the horses are very close.

In the Zenyatta/Rachel debates I used to say that I'd take Rachel at 9F against Grade 1 fillies but Zenyatta at 10F against Grade 1 males. Point being that Rachel would dominate other fillies on the pace and get 1st move, but at 10F against colts she'd have to actually run early to stay with them and then Zenyatta would get her.

The other great point he made was that Winx wins all the time because she's a lot better than the competition. So she can overcome subtle positional, distance, and setup disadvantages and win anyway. Horses don't compile these tremendous race records (even when they don't win by large margins) because they are slightly better than the other horses.